Audi/VW self study guide for new TSI 2.0l engine

[saaber1]

Should be interesting for folks interested in VW/Audi. This engine apparently is in all the 09 GTI and maybe the whole range that uses the 2.0L? As I understand it, many cars with build dates of late April 08 or later already have this engine. The engine cover says "TSI" instead of "FSI".

There is one really good writeup about all the improvements on one of the posts and a little later on in this page is a PDF of VW's self study guide that really explains the new engine.

Note that this 2.0L TSI engine (turbo only) should not be confused with Europe's 1.4L TSI engine (both turbo and supercharger). The nomenclature is confusing.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3749316&page=5

I would be interested to hear any thoughts.

I have to echo what moribundman (i think?) said in earlier posts, that first year VW engines might be scary because of rushing new technology onto the market. But then hey, it's new technology so it must be better right?! ha ha

 

[rationull]

Thanks for the link, that's an awesome document. I love reading this kind of detailed information, and the diagrams are very nice. I've been happy to find a lot of fairly detailed information about my car's engine (Honda R18) online as well, and I'm hoping that these kinds of releases become more common as it's interesting to read about the different systems developed by different manufacturers.

The cutaway diagram of the valve timing adjustment system is very informative.

 

[rationull]

Finished reading it a bit ago .. I found the coolant pump placement interesting (it's in a plastic housing shared by the thermostat, on the side of the engine, driven by a belt around a gear on the end of one of the balance shafts). Never heard of that before. Also the auxiliary "after-run" pump for the turbo bearings is a great idea. No more letting the engine idle for 30 seconds before shutting it off for the benefit of the turbo.

 

[bar1]

VW/Audi had "after-run" pump for the turbo bearings 15 years ago. Not a new idea...

 

[rationull]

Didn't know about that. I'm not really a turbo guy and my only exposure (very, very small exposure) has been to Japanese ones. Forgive my ignorance.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
I have to echo what moribundman (i think?) said in earlier posts, that first year VW engines might be scary because of rushing new technology onto the market.


I don't think that's what I said, because VW and Audi take years and years to actually come out with their new engine designs. I do however not want to deal with the drawbacks (Mostly the additional cost once things wear or break) that the complications of the latest designs offer. That's why I bought my A4 with the very simple 12-valve V6 back in 1996. I did not want to have to deal with all the extra parts the 30v V6 or the 20v 1.8T had. Regarding machinery of any kind, I prefer the KISS concept.

 

[saaber1]

Moribundman (or anyone else), I'm Curious if you happen to know how often VW updates their engines (I mean fixing known weak spots for the same engine, not changing to a whole new engine such as from the FSI to the TSI)?

One time I researched the Toyota MR2 spyder and was amazed how many parts changed from when they first came out. In just 3 years they had changed nearly every major part (cams, cranks, heads, etc. etc.), sometimes a part was changed many times. The end result is that 03'+ Spyders are considered much more reliable than 00-03' spyders.

Then on the other end of the spectrum is Porsche who makes a change about once every time Haley's comet comes around. Known intermediate shaft and other problems existed with the water cooled 911 and boxster motors but Porsche did nothing to fix them until very recently. These two articles have the best explanation I have found for those problems:

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/Total911_July06.pdf

http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/911PW_Apr06.pdf

I am mainly curious because I was faced with the choice of getting the newest TSI engine or the 3+ year old FSI engine. I chose the FSI because it has been beaten on pretty hard by tuners etc. and the weak points and strengths are pretty well known now. I wonder though if a 08' 2.0l FSI is really better in the real world than say an 06' 2.0l FSI?

 

[rcy]

I like the location of the oil filter. However, will one need the OE filter to take advantage of the 'breech pin' that allows the oil to flow back into the engine when changing the filter?

Looking at the illustration on page 24, it seems like it, as the filter has a sleeve integrated into it, that pushes the breech pin down to prevent oil from returning to the engine when the filter is screwed all the way in.

I think this engine will be in the Tiguan as well. I'm comparing the Tiguan and the CR-V as my next vehicle. Prices are similar and I really really liked the CR-V until I saw the Tiguan. Have to compare Honda reliability to VW though.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: saaber1
Moribundman (or anyone else), I'm Curious if you happen to know how often VW updates their engines (I mean fixing known weak spots for the same engine, not changing to a whole new engine such as from the FSI to the TSI)?


Well, I am not aware of any main engine components being updated throughout the production run of one engine. Sometimes engine parts undergo a change from one model year to the next. For example, cam design may depend on model year and market. For example, my A4 has different (less aggressive) cams than does the same engine in the older Audi 90.

I know the ICV was updated on my A4 during its production run. Actually, the older ICV was too good, so they made it worse.

Updated components have part numbers that have A, B, C, D etc after the part number. As I said, updated doesn't necessarily mean better.

I can't comment on the FSI or TSI engines, since I have zero firsthand experience with them.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
saaber1 - IME today most manufacturers make Technical updates in line with user experience. This data (need for change) comes in live from Dealers and Service Departmants via Warranty Claims and the like

In the 1960s such updates took a long time to reach the Engineers and then up to a year or more to "go down line"
This was the case with most BMC products and others made in England

The Japanese changed all that and of course computerisation was the magic bullet in many ways

The Japanese can do on line changes within days or weeks and have been doing this for several years now (depending on the Engineering input and Production changes needed)

The advent of computerisation was the pivotal point for the Germans (MB that I know well). The Engineering time via the German connection can still take a long time for a number of reasons (some cultural) that I won't elaborate on

I believe the Koreans are also very fast at implemeting on line changes

Porsche's M996 engine for instance has had a whole raft of major component changes during its 12 year history

I could go into this with many stories but it would bore the pants off some - anyway, I hope this helps

 

[saaber1]

Doug, that is awesome info. and totally explains what I have seen. I know with the VW 2.0 FSI they have hardened the cam -it bears the "B" designation as Moribund said- and it makes sense that they did that in response to problems (found mostly by tuners with aftermarket fuel pumps or those who nearly run out of oil) and the timeline also fits what you said.

 

[mikeinaustin]

Anyone know if this engine will be in the 2009 audi TT 2.0L? been reading on the internet about the belt breakage problem with the "older/current" engine and am not interested in doing timing belt changes every 60K miles (that gets expensive)! Going to a timing chain as specified in this new engine makes me much happier!

 

[Aldaris]

I don't like the excessive use of plastics in that engine.

 

[Audi Junkie]