ATF change in a Honda

[sir1900]

So I've read numerous discussion boards and there seems to be no consensus when it comes to changing the ATF in a Honda that hasn't been serviced for an extended period of time. I know Honda transmissions are sensitive to what goes in it and how often it is changed.

1. Some say even if it hasn't been serviced for a long time (i.e. 100k miles or more), do only a drain and refill. Never do a complete flush.

2. Some say do a complete flush.

3. Some say don't touch the ATF at all. Just drive it until the trans dies.

So which one is it?

 

[scurvy]

Do a cooler line exchange or several pan drain & fills a few miles apart, whichever floats your boat. Do replace the filter if it hasn't been done. Don't use a 'power flush' that utilizes an external pump or solvent-based flush chemical.

This 'never replace the ATF' nonsense needs to stop. One thing it will do is ensure the transmission dies.

All fluids get contaminated, additives depleted, sheared, etc... and as such they all need replenishing or replacement at sensible intervals. Lots of folks swear their Hondas only see Z1 or DW1 but there's too many folks out there running Maxlife ATF for me to not recommend it. A bottle of Lubegard would also be a good idea (red or platinum, per their chart).

Change your PSF while you're at it... one of the most neglected fluids on cars.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: sir1900
So I've read numerous discussion boards and there seems to be no consensus when it comes to changing the ATF in a Honda...


And likely will not be one in this thread either.

I'll put in my usual vote for an exchange following precisely the Honda service news article using DW1.

 

[Recalculating]

As to concur with Scurvy, and if your Honda has over 60k, refer to the vehicle's transmission capacity (e.g. 12 qts.) and make new ATF available to do drain and fills. There is advice on here to do other than Honda's DW-1 ATF but I stay with DW-1.

Drain and fill the three or four times it takes to rotate most of the original fluid out.
It is a good idea to measure what drains each time so you can put in new in that amount. Driving around the block and doing another drain will work however getting the project all done within a reasonable period is better than nothing.

Good point about the project is if you can do an oil change, you can do this

 

[JOD]

I'd vote for doing a full fluid exchange, and changing the inline filter as well. You'll get more new fluid in there while using less fluid. A 3x drain and fill would work fine too, it's just a bit more wasteful and ultimately you'll have exchanged a little less fluid. Whatever you do, I'd pass on option 3.

 

[radtech91]

What I do is a drain and fil every 15,000 miles since my CR-V was new. Honda recommends to do a full ATF change at 60,000, which according to the official Honda service manual, which I own, is to do a 4x drain and fill. This will get all the fluid out and replace with new.
I do the drain and fill every 15,000 miles, this way there is always a constant supply of new fluid in there, and by the time I have go to the 60,000 I will basically all new fresh fluid in.
Honda doesn't recommend changing the ATF filter unless you have to have work done on the transmission. From what I seen in the service manual it looks like a pain to get to it and change it. Which is probably why it only does get changed when the transmission gets worked on.
I would say stick with the Honda DW-1, I am currently with a mixture of the Z1 (old fluid) with the newer synthetic DW-1. My mother has a 2012 CR-V which only has the DW-1 in it and it shifts very nicely, better than mine, so I'm hoping once I get all the Z1 out and it only has the DW-1 that it will shift the same.

 

[SteveSRT8]

No amount of pan drops will ever get ALL the old fluid out. You just reach a point of diminishing returns and eventually quit.

Would any of us oil nuts do that in an engine? Just drop about a third of the oil and put in new. I don't think so.

Passive cooler line exchange will get ALL the old fluid out in one easy operation. By all means change the filter if possible, if not get a good inline one and install it.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I'm still trying to decide which fluid to use in the 05 Accord. Some people say to use the OEM honda fluid, others are saying to use max guard.

Personally, I am a fan of changing fluid.

 

[vtecboy]

i'd go for a single drain and fill.

 

[Sayjac]

Have the infamous 01 Civic automagic since new. All that's ever been done is a simple drain and fill (d&f) every 25-30k with Z-1 after ff to ~50k. ~185k later, still shifting on the original transmission.

Since Z-1 now discontinued/superseded, last d&f done with the much more reasonably priced MaxLife D/M ATF and also no issues.

In your case I'd ignore the don't touch the trans opinion and start with a simple d&f and perhaps reduce the interval to ~10-15k for a while. JMO

 

[Chris Meutsch]

I follow the manual for my CR-V for that and our Pilot with the MM which I don't like.
Every 30k, drain and fill one time with new DW-1, formerly Z-1. Never had an issue on these cars or my Civic which had 227k on it when I sold it.

 

[crashtestdummy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No amount of pan drops will ever get ALL the old fluid out. You just reach a point of diminishing returns and eventually quit.

Would any of us oil nuts do that in an engine? Just drop about a third of the oil and put in new. I don't think so.

Passive cooler line exchange will get ALL the old fluid out in one easy operation. By all means change the filter if possible, if not get a good inline one and install it.


Great advice right there!

 

[Jim Allen]

It's so easy to do a cooler line job on most Hondas, if it were my car, that's where I would go, sir. I presume you'll do it yourself. Get that nasty stuff outta there ASAP!

As to which oil, Honda DW1 is the totally safe bet but there are so many people using Maxlife successfully that the price difference is hard to ignore.

I've done D&Fs on our '00 Accord V6 every 30K with a, cooler line changeout at 60K using Z1. Just used the last of the Z1 I had on a D&F at 90K, so by the time we hit 120K in about three years, I'll have to make up my mind. Likely Maxlife unless something else comes along in the meantime. The cooler line exchange took about 30 minutes on our car... easy!

 

[JTK]

Any Honda ATs I've seen have no removable pan, but do have easily accessible drain and fill plugs, as well as a dipstick.

Normally I'd agree on the cooler line ATF exchange, but given ATF drain/fills are easier than engine oil changes on them, IMO, drain/fills are the way to go.

I'm also never a fan of OEM only fluids/lubes when "suitable for use" have proven over and over (...and over) to perform perfectly. I use Valvoline Maxlife ATF in Hondas that spec Z1/DW1. There's many others that are excellent replacements as well.

Joel

 

[Hokiefyd]

DW-1 is a different fluid than Z1, and it performs differently. Honda says the two are interchangeable. However, there's a clear difference to me in the shifting on a transmission designed for and FF'd with DW-1 (such as my in-law's 2011 CR-V) and a transmission that was designed for and FF'd with Z1 (such as our 2008 CR-V), but SF'd with DW-1. I've ran DW-1 in both of our Z1 vehicles and both experience looser/sloppier operation with DW-1. Valvoline MaxLife works better in the V-6 AT in our Acura. MaxLife shifts a little too firm for my taste in the I-4 AT in our Honda; in that vehicle, Castrol Transmax IMV is about perfect.

Our local Honda dealer doesn't even use Honda ATF; they use MaxLife.

 

[Falken]

Single drain and fill with Maxlife, then do it every year or thereabouts.

Completely fresh fluid may cause issues, but you'll never know until you try.

Drain and fills are your safe bet and you are doing it some good over just leaving in old fluid.

 

[tudorart]

Right, they are two different things.

DW1 is designed to improve transmission performance when it’s cold and Z-1 is NOT compatible where DW-1 is recommended regardless of weather.

DW1 @40C= 25.09 cSt; @100C = 6.835 cSt
Z1 @40C= 29.49 cSt; @100C = 7.058 cSt

Now about the full fluid swap: it's dangerous if transmission is dirty mainly because of the big amount of detergents coming with the new fluid. That can remove too much deposits and clog the filter/starve the system.
If done anyways, it's highly advisable to start with a brand new filter and inspect (replace again if needed) the filter after 50,250, 500 miles.

Why would you take the risk though? Change filter w/ pan oil more often from now on and you stay safe. I would let it work for at least 2000 miles between changes.

 

[FoxS]

Originally Posted By: JOD
I'd vote for doing a full fluid exchange, and changing the inline filter as well. You'll get more new fluid in there while using less fluid. A 3x drain and fill would work fine too, it's just a bit more wasteful and ultimately you'll have exchanged a little less fluid. Whatever you do, I'd pass on option 3.


This!

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No amount of pan drops will ever get ALL the old fluid out. You just reach a point of diminishing returns and eventually quit.

Would any of us oil nuts do that in an engine? Just drop about a third of the oil and put in new. I don't think so.

Passive cooler line exchange will get ALL the old fluid out in one easy operation. By all means change the filter if possible, if not get a good inline one and install it.


Would you hook up a pipe to output of engine oil filter and let it all run a bucket to empty all of the engine oil while the engine is running???? If not, why are you suggesting similar method for the transmission?

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No amount of pan drops will ever get ALL the old fluid out. You just reach a point of diminishing returns and eventually quit.

Would any of us oil nuts do that in an engine? Just drop about a third of the oil and put in new. I don't think so.

Passive cooler line exchange will get ALL the old fluid out in one easy operation. By all means change the filter if possible, if not get a good inline one and install it.


Would you hook up a pipe to output of engine oil filter and let it all run a bucket to empty all of the engine oil while the engine is running???? If not, why are you suggesting similar method for the transmission?


That's not how a transmission flush is done, nor have I ever seen anyone recommend doing so. It would be more analogous to draining 1 qt of oil out of a 5 Qt sump, stopping, filling back up that one quart, then continuing. No one has ever recommended pumping out ALL of the fluid and running it dry, just removing 20% or so (less than the capacity of the sump).

Engines don't leave behind 70% of their oil during an oil change, so this really isn't necessary...