ATF change in a Honda

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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd


Our local Honda dealer doesn't even use Honda ATF; they use MaxLife.


So do they tell unsuspecting customers that fact?

If they don't that is a very unethical practice.

While MaxLife MIGHT be sufficient and do the job, Honda automatics are quite different that a traditional slush box and should be treated as such.

If anything I would recommend sticking with what works. Honda fluid....in any case it is critical that you use a fluid that MEETS Honda specs.
I know that Castrol Transmax does. Although I have never seen the written statement that MaxLife does meet Honda specs.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
No amount of pan drops will ever get ALL the old fluid out. You just reach a point of diminishing returns and eventually quit.

Would any of us oil nuts do that in an engine? Just drop about a third of the oil and put in new. I don't think so.

Passive cooler line exchange will get ALL the old fluid out in one easy operation. By all means change the filter if possible, if not get a good inline one and install it.


Would you hook up a pipe to output of engine oil filter and let it all run a bucket to empty all of the engine oil while the engine is running???? If not, why are you suggesting similar method for the transmission?


I think you have the concept wrong.

Here's a link on how to do it. Hope it helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsdPAadc9fY
 
If it is the 04 Accord EX V6 it doesn't have a pan and it doesn't have a serviceable filter.

Unless you actually turn the driveline and let the car shift through all ranges you cannot get new fluid into those passages.

Nothing short of a teardown is going to get a 100% change, your two real options are:

  • Cooler line flush
  • Honda procedure with multiple drain and fills


The cooler line flush has the advantage of being quicker and possibly uses less fluid.

I believe the Honda procedure gets more of the old fluid if you follow the instructions. Doing it without a lift can be a little hairy.

See: http://www.civicforums.com/forums/posts/...571-post33.html

My experience with DW1 is different from Hokiefyd's. I did a simple drain and fill on the Civic around 60,000 miles and noticed no change in behavior. At 100,000 I did a complete exchange and again noticed no change in behavior. The Acura the DW1 improved cold weather performance and overall better shift performance. It also eliminated a slight shudder under certain conditions.
 
Just to throw it out there about the DW-1 performance to improve Winter shifting it is true.

I had a new Honda Fit just before the cold weather and on really cold days the shifting was very sluggish then it would grab, and the shift points were drawn out.

1 drain and fill before the next Winter and the shifting improved dramatically on really cold days.

I am on my second drain and fill now and my car shifts almost like in Summer when it is really cold out.

The old fluid Honda used to use was horrible for cold shifts.

I do a drain and fill every 20,000 km and it uses 2.5L each time, at 10$ a Litre for the fluid it is really cheap to keep it clean.

Doing a drain and fill on the Fit is really easy, easier than an oil change. There is a 3/8" drive square drain bolt at the bottom of the transmission.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
If anything I would recommend sticking with what works. Honda fluid....in any case it is critical that you use a fluid that MEETS Honda specs.
I know that Castrol Transmax does. Although I have never seen the written statement that MaxLife does meet Honda specs.


Except that Honda fluid in the past has not worked all that great. We know it shears, and it shears badly. We know it doesn't seem to handle heat very well. We know its performance degrades far sooner than the recommended ATF change interval would indicate. Is DW-1 any better in these areas than the older Z1? I haven't been convinced of that.

Castrol and Valvoline both self-certify that they meet the requirements of Honda ATs. Do either of them *actually* meet it? I don't know. All I know is that aftermarket fluids work very well in these transmissions.

You seem confident that Castrol *does* meet the Honda fluid specifications. How do you know this?
 
Originally Posted By: cb450sc
Doesn't the Fit have a CVT transmission and only takes CVT fluid?


In most of the world, it does. But in the United States, the Fit is available with a 5-speed manual or a 5-speed automatic.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
If anything I would recommend sticking with what works. Honda fluid....in any case it is critical that you use a fluid that MEETS Honda specs.
I know that Castrol Transmax does. Although I have never seen the written statement that MaxLife does meet Honda specs.


Except that Honda fluid in the past has not worked all that great......

True that. Though I used Z-1 sucessfully with single d&fs for ~165k till superseded, for whatever reason(s) it had one the worst reps for an ATF. Now that Honda sees fit to switch, I have no qualms about going with MaxLife in my Hondas spec'd for Z-1.
 
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
If it is the 04 Accord EX V6 it doesn't have a pan and it doesn't have a serviceable filter.


Actually, it does--it's under the air box:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17904

That's a 2003 (same generation), but if you look up the parts for a 2004 it's the same filter. I'm not sure why they're hiding it in the owner's manual but it's there, and it's reasonably easy to replace.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
If it is the 04 Accord EX V6 it doesn't have a pan and it doesn't have a serviceable filter.


Actually, it does--it's under the air box:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17904

That's a 2003 (same generation), but if you look up the parts for a 2004 it's the same filter. I'm not sure why they're hiding it in the owner's manual but it's there, and it's reasonably easy to replace.


Interesting, I don't think it is intended to be serviced thats probably why it is hidden in the owners manual, but it does look like more of a filter than the one in the Acura which was a complete waste of time and money to change.
 
I was interested in this thread because I owned an Accord for many years. The filter pictured is an add-on. The company that sold me the remanufactured transmission for my Accord (after the original lasted slightly over 300,000 miles) requires use of a Magnefine filter, at least during the warranty period. It's actually a good thing to do. When I replaced the Magnefine I used one of these instead. Obviously, it has smaller capacity, but it was not in the way of anything and I planned to change it every 30,0000 miles with the fluid (drain and fill only).

http://www.atp-inc.com/featured/aluminuminlinemagnetictransmissionfilters.aspx

The Magnefine blocked access to the dipstick/fill hole because it was so large. For the entire life of the original transmission (over 300,000 miles, remember?) all I ever did was drain and fill.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
If it is the 04 Accord EX V6 it doesn't have a pan and it doesn't have a serviceable filter.


Actually, it does--it's under the air box:

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17904

That's a 2003 (same generation), but if you look up the parts for a 2004 it's the same filter. I'm not sure why they're hiding it in the owner's manual but it's there, and it's reasonably easy to replace.

I have that link favorited as well as the link inside. While it may be reasonably easy to replace, I've read that a strong back is an asset for the job.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies. So MaxLife it is. By the sounds of it, people here and elsewhere have seen good results with it, so I'm going to go along with that and see how it goes.

The trans still shifts very well, but it's one of those things where it's time to change it out.
 
The rebuilder of my 2009 vintage transmission specified Honda ATF only, but I ran 300,000+ miles on the original with Dexron II (that was the spec in 1989) and Mobil 1 synthetic ATF. I used Dex II for the first change, Amsoil ATF for the second, and then M1 for the remainder, every 30,000 miles. I think there may be more than one version of M1 ATF these days, but all I knew was M1.

Come to think of it, I actually used B&M Trick Shift Synthetic for a couple of years somewhere in the mix because my local Pep Boys had it on clearance when they were liquidating. That stuff was dyed blue instead of red.

In retrospect, I may have been better off going Honda from the start. I wonder what the highest mileage OE Honda AT is out there on BITOG?
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd


Except that Honda fluid in the past has not worked all that great. We know it shears, and it shears badly. We know it doesn't seem to handle heat very well. We know its performance degrades far sooner than the recommended ATF change interval would indicate. Is DW-1 any better in these areas than the older Z1? I haven't been convinced of that.

I'm not sure of anything you have posted here, I have the Z1 in my 94 Honda Accord and it has performed perfectly with changes around 30k mark. As recommended by the Manufacturer. Shifts are positive, but not harsh, but crisp like they ae supposed to be (in the manner of a manual--which is the way this auto box was designed) no issues at all with shifting in any conditions, or ambient temps.

Again no reason NOT to use OEM fluid it is perfectly matched for the transmission which like most Honda auto boxes is not like a typical automatic.
Quote:

Castrol and Valvoline both self-certify that they meet the requirements of Honda ATs. Do either of them *actually* meet it? I don't know. All I know is that aftermarket fluids work very well in these transmissions.

You seem confident that Castrol *does* meet the Honda fluid specifications. How do you know this?


Castrol puts it in writing that Transmax meets or exceeds BOTH Z1 and DW1 specs for Honda Acura.

PDF here.
Castrol PDF Transmax fluid

No where in official Valvoline literature does it state that MaxLife ATF meets Honda DW 1 specs.
 
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I have been doing the partial drain and refill every other oil change with the wife's Odyssey (06). Castrol Transmax is the fluid of choice. First was done at 60k, it was needed as the fluid was rather dark. Took a couple of cycles but now the fluid is clear and clean. Should probably stretch the drain and refill cycles out to every third oil change, approximately every 15-18K miles. Shift quality is is as good as ever,(never has been stellar).
 
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The only honda AT I've ever had problems with was running Maxlife. I've cared for a CRV, accord, odyssey, and an MDX. The crv started to stick in gear and then slam shift after 6 months on maxlife. A return to Z1 helped but never fixed the problem. Since then I've pretty much been 100% amsoil in the honda ATs with zero problems.

I did run the accord on M1 universal + LG black--- smooth and quiet but I lost 1 mpg.

Honda fluid or amsoil. done. I have the t-shirt.
 
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'm not sure of anything you have posted here, I have the Z1 in my 94 Honda Accord and it has performed perfectly with changes around 30k mark. As recommended by the Manufacturer. Shifts are positive, but not harsh, but crisp like they ae supposed to be (in the manner of a manual--which is the way this auto box was designed) no issues at all with shifting in any conditions, or ambient temps.


Z1 shears quickly. It always has. That may not have caused issues in your '94 Accord.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=886040

http://www.driveaccord.net/forums/showthread.php?t=64739

Here's the new DW-1 after only 7800 miles:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2584585

Starting viscosity (at 100 deg C) for both OEM fluids is in the 7.5-7.8 cSt range, so you can see that they shear heavily.

If you keep the fluid changed often enough, it shouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Castrol puts it in writing that Transmax meets or exceeds BOTH Z1 and DW1 specs for Honda Acura.

PDF here.
Castrol PDF Transmax fluid

No where in official Valvoline literature does it state that MaxLife ATF meets Honda DW 1 specs.



I am tending to prefer the Castrol product over the Valvoline product more lately, because Castrol does reference JASO-1A. Valvoline does not mention that specification at all. My next ATF change in the Acura (in about 600 miles) will be with the Castrol Transmax IMV.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd


Here's the new DW-1 after only 7800 miles:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2584585

Starting viscosity (at 100 deg C) for both OEM fluids is in the 7.5-7.8 cSt range, so you can see that they shear heavily.



Both of those UOA's seem to contain only a portion of DW-1 (a single drain/fill, or 30-40%?), and the viscosity of DW-1 is 6.8 out of the bottle, so I don't think this is really much evidence that the fluid shears heavily. If anything, considering the viscosity of the remaining fluid, I think just the opposite may be true. We'll probably need to seem fo UOA's on units with all DW-1 to really tell. I will say that the DW-1 seemed to improve shifting (which was already pretty good) in an older CR-V.
 
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