There is one argument for NOT wanting cars to last so long. In 2008 I bought a new RAV4. Because of safety improvements, the new RAV4 was cheaper to insure than my 2001 Camry even though it was worth 2.5 times as much. With the way cars are improving, both safety wise as well as miles per gallon, why drive something much beyond 12-15 years anyway.
Are there any new sedans capable of 300k miles?
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Originally Posted by DuckRyder
I do not get the Toyota love around here.
When you have owned one that lasted over 300k miles with only normal maintenance and a handful minor/inexpensive repairs, THEN you will understand the love.
In addition to several Toyotas, I have owned... Hondas (I have one now, my wife's driver), Mazdas, Nissans, Fords, a Hyundai, a Mercury, and an Oldsmobile. None of them have come close to the long-term reliability, durability, and longevity that I have personally experienced with the Toyota products I have owned. I have never actually worn-out a Toyota, I only replaced them because I needed something else or because they were totaled in an accident. IMO, real-world experience is everything and loyalty is earned.
I do not get the Toyota love around here.
When you have owned one that lasted over 300k miles with only normal maintenance and a handful minor/inexpensive repairs, THEN you will understand the love.
In addition to several Toyotas, I have owned... Hondas (I have one now, my wife's driver), Mazdas, Nissans, Fords, a Hyundai, a Mercury, and an Oldsmobile. None of them have come close to the long-term reliability, durability, and longevity that I have personally experienced with the Toyota products I have owned. I have never actually worn-out a Toyota, I only replaced them because I needed something else or because they were totaled in an accident. IMO, real-world experience is everything and loyalty is earned.
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by DuckRyder
I do not get the Toyota love around here.
When you have owned one that lasted over 300k miles with only normal maintenance and a handful minor/inexpensive repairs, THEN you will understand the love.
In addition to several Toyotas, I have owned... Hondas (I have one now, my wife's driver), Mazdas, Nissans, Fords, a Hyundai, a Mercury, and an Oldsmobile. None of them have come close to the long-term reliability, durability, and longevity that I have personally experienced with the Toyota products I have owned. IMO, real-world experience is everything and loyalty is earned.
I have one and there are a number in the family... like I say, I don't get it...
Originally Posted by DuckRyder
I do not get the Toyota love around here.
When you have owned one that lasted over 300k miles with only normal maintenance and a handful minor/inexpensive repairs, THEN you will understand the love.
In addition to several Toyotas, I have owned... Hondas (I have one now, my wife's driver), Mazdas, Nissans, Fords, a Hyundai, a Mercury, and an Oldsmobile. None of them have come close to the long-term reliability, durability, and longevity that I have personally experienced with the Toyota products I have owned. IMO, real-world experience is everything and loyalty is earned.
I have one and there are a number in the family... like I say, I don't get it...
Got over 200k on a CVT. Ran Castrol Transmax / Redline CVT fluid and change q 3rd oci or prn. Will run to 300k no problem. Running a superb 0w20 that will get me there too. Change fluids oft and w/ consistency and you will be fine.
GON
$100 Site Donor 2024
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
Originally Posted by GMBoy
I don't see why the hate for the FCA models....the 3.6 Pentastar is a wonderful motor as is the Hemi. I have a Pentastar 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 with 96k trouble free miles and a Hemi Ram with 42k trouble free miles. They are not bad vehicles.
Right, and we both agree that your anecdote is not data.
Toyota/Lexus regularly ends up at the top of the heap in data driven long term reliability indexes.
FCA regularly ends up at the bottom of the pile in the same.
It is not FCA hate that you are experiencing, it is the poor reliability of the product they produce shining through.
Please note how few people here commented about getting an FCA product.
Also note how many mentioned the Camry.
Figure it out yourself from there...
I don't see why the hate for the FCA models....the 3.6 Pentastar is a wonderful motor as is the Hemi. I have a Pentastar 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 with 96k trouble free miles and a Hemi Ram with 42k trouble free miles. They are not bad vehicles.
Right, and we both agree that your anecdote is not data.
Toyota/Lexus regularly ends up at the top of the heap in data driven long term reliability indexes.
FCA regularly ends up at the bottom of the pile in the same.
It is not FCA hate that you are experiencing, it is the poor reliability of the product they produce shining through.
Please note how few people here commented about getting an FCA product.
Also note how many mentioned the Camry.
Figure it out yourself from there...
Originally Posted by GON
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
Yes, but then you'd have to drive a 2005 Bonneville....
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
Yes, but then you'd have to drive a 2005 Bonneville....
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2024
Originally Posted by GON
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
I have personally had two 3800s with 280,000 on them when I sold them.
All depends on what you do with them. There are a bunch of G8s out there with the L76 (6.0 V8) with over 300,000 miles on them and they run mid 13 second 1/4 miles still.
It really depends on who owns them. I have see tons of cars that should make it to 200,000 not make it because of poor maintenance.
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
I have personally had two 3800s with 280,000 on them when I sold them.
All depends on what you do with them. There are a bunch of G8s out there with the L76 (6.0 V8) with over 300,000 miles on them and they run mid 13 second 1/4 miles still.
It really depends on who owns them. I have see tons of cars that should make it to 200,000 not make it because of poor maintenance.
Well as a general reply to a couple of posts, I am a "country bumkin" and I wish my commutes were only a couple of miles. And that answers where I was going most of those 30,000 miles a year. 100 mile round trips to work add up quick. Closest grocery store is 15 miles away. Thankfully my work commutes now are 'only' 25 mile round trips now. I also believe in paying cash for vehicles and getting as much value for my dollar. Hence the 'run em till they drop dead' mentality. Of course I maintain them but rust from salt and mud tend to be the biggest battle I fight until age sets in and then everything starts going wrong.
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by GON
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
I have personally had two 3800s with 280,000 on them when I sold them.
All depends on what you do with them. There are a bunch of G8s out there with the L76 (6.0 V8) with over 300,000 miles on them and they run mid 13 second 1/4 miles still.
It really depends on who owns them. I have see tons of cars that should make it to 200,000 not make it because of poor maintenance.
Amen, the 3.8's seem to go forever with just basic maintenance. Sadly the supply of those GM cars in my locale has dwindled to nothing.
Originally Posted by GON
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
I have personally had two 3800s with 280,000 on them when I sold them.
All depends on what you do with them. There are a bunch of G8s out there with the L76 (6.0 V8) with over 300,000 miles on them and they run mid 13 second 1/4 miles still.
It really depends on who owns them. I have see tons of cars that should make it to 200,000 not make it because of poor maintenance.
Amen, the 3.8's seem to go forever with just basic maintenance. Sadly the supply of those GM cars in my locale has dwindled to nothing.
The fact that to get heated seats in a Camry you need to upgrade to a $35,000 XLE or XSE takes it out of the running for me.
Originally Posted by BrocLuno
Why, why buy new? Are you independently wealthy? Why take the hit on the depreciation ...
Fly out to LA, go CL shopping for a nice used Fusion (about a bazzillion prolly available), get it serviced at a Ford dealer on Monday and drive it home. Since there are no rust issues, as long as it was not a beach car, it'll last back there for the same amount of time as a new car and cost 1/3.
You'all have plenty used engines and tranny's to keep it going. You just need an affordable chassis with no rust holes. We generate those by the bushel.
I can't see why we are not "exporting" rust free older cars to the mid-west to run the EOL cycle in the rust belt ...
Nope not rich. But then again I pay cash. So I'm not paying interest charges that do add up. Why new, well it seems around here no one seems to know how to open a hood and check the oil. At best people drive it to a Jiffy Lube every 10,000 miles and get whatever bulk oil and cheaply filter is provided. I've noticed a lot of smoke on start up cars lately. These junkers, some of which are relatively low mile cars, end up on lots and are sold to the next schmuck who can't seem to get on board with a basic oil change schedule. I don't want one of these cars. Maybe it's different where you live. I've learned to get by with buying very clean used cars that I know the history of or brand new and pay cash for them and then drive them as long as practical all while saving for the next vehicle. It works out if you keep them for the long haul.
Edit- this by no means is a condemnation of those who use a quality oil and filter have taken samples and know that they can get by through knowledge of what they are doing. I'm referring to the lazy who do it by default.
Why, why buy new? Are you independently wealthy? Why take the hit on the depreciation ...
Fly out to LA, go CL shopping for a nice used Fusion (about a bazzillion prolly available), get it serviced at a Ford dealer on Monday and drive it home. Since there are no rust issues, as long as it was not a beach car, it'll last back there for the same amount of time as a new car and cost 1/3.
You'all have plenty used engines and tranny's to keep it going. You just need an affordable chassis with no rust holes. We generate those by the bushel.
I can't see why we are not "exporting" rust free older cars to the mid-west to run the EOL cycle in the rust belt ...
Nope not rich. But then again I pay cash. So I'm not paying interest charges that do add up. Why new, well it seems around here no one seems to know how to open a hood and check the oil. At best people drive it to a Jiffy Lube every 10,000 miles and get whatever bulk oil and cheaply filter is provided. I've noticed a lot of smoke on start up cars lately. These junkers, some of which are relatively low mile cars, end up on lots and are sold to the next schmuck who can't seem to get on board with a basic oil change schedule. I don't want one of these cars. Maybe it's different where you live. I've learned to get by with buying very clean used cars that I know the history of or brand new and pay cash for them and then drive them as long as practical all while saving for the next vehicle. It works out if you keep them for the long haul.
Edit- this by no means is a condemnation of those who use a quality oil and filter have taken samples and know that they can get by through knowledge of what they are doing. I'm referring to the lazy who do it by default.
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Originally Posted by philipp10
.....Finally the thin oil thing comes up again. As I recall, the studies I have seen say most engine wear occurs in the first 10 seconds, especially in cold climates like where I live. So again, are you making an incorrect assumption? Thin oil helps for cold starts....period......just saying...
.
This is essentially incorrect. Does the first 10 seconds cause more wear than the second 10 seconds after startup? Probably. Does the first 10 seconds cause more wear than from 10 seconds after startup until the engine oil is at normal op temp? (ie 20 seconds to 10-20 minutes after startup). Nope. IIRC the vast majority of the wear occurs after the engine is running at approx idle speed as it slowly warms up to normal oil temps of 165-185 deg F. Chemical tribo-films and oil wedging at startup from being thick enough keep the engine wear in the first 10 seconds to a very small amount.
Thin oil helps for startups? It surely helps the engine turn easier on startup. It certainly doesn't result in less engine/bearing wear under all conditions. It's certainly not correct for most people driving in North America. No doubt true in Antarctica and northern Alaska/Canada in the dead of winter. If your car can pump 5w or 10w oil in winter time and the engine starts easily enough, that could result in less engine wear than using a thin oil such as 0w-16/20. There is no one right answer or one "study" that covers all climates, all seasons, all cars, all oils, all oil filters, and all people's driving habits.
.....Finally the thin oil thing comes up again. As I recall, the studies I have seen say most engine wear occurs in the first 10 seconds, especially in cold climates like where I live. So again, are you making an incorrect assumption? Thin oil helps for cold starts....period......just saying...
.
This is essentially incorrect. Does the first 10 seconds cause more wear than the second 10 seconds after startup? Probably. Does the first 10 seconds cause more wear than from 10 seconds after startup until the engine oil is at normal op temp? (ie 20 seconds to 10-20 minutes after startup). Nope. IIRC the vast majority of the wear occurs after the engine is running at approx idle speed as it slowly warms up to normal oil temps of 165-185 deg F. Chemical tribo-films and oil wedging at startup from being thick enough keep the engine wear in the first 10 seconds to a very small amount.
Thin oil helps for startups? It surely helps the engine turn easier on startup. It certainly doesn't result in less engine/bearing wear under all conditions. It's certainly not correct for most people driving in North America. No doubt true in Antarctica and northern Alaska/Canada in the dead of winter. If your car can pump 5w or 10w oil in winter time and the engine starts easily enough, that could result in less engine wear than using a thin oil such as 0w-16/20. There is no one right answer or one "study" that covers all climates, all seasons, all cars, all oils, all oil filters, and all people's driving habits.
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Originally Posted by JNG
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by GON
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
I have personally had two 3800s with 280,000 on them when I sold them.
All depends on what you do with them. There are a bunch of G8s out there with the L76 (6.0 V8) with over 300,000 miles on them and they run mid 13 second 1/4 miles still.
It really depends on who owns them. I have see tons of cars that should make it to 200,000 not make it because of poor maintenance.
Amen, the 3.8's seem to go forever with just basic maintenance. Sadly the supply of those GM cars in my locale has dwindled to nothing.
I agree with this as well. In my experience (not opinion) the GM 3800 is the best engine ever made. I had 350,000 miles on mine when I sold it. My dad's had around 550,000 miles on it when he gave it to one of my nephews. Neither engine leaked or used oil. Mine was ran on GTX and his on PYB.
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by GON
Do a nationwide search for a 80k or less 2005 Bonneville SLE. Only purchase from a one owner southern or south western owner. Have the LIM gasket replaced, oil change, serpentine belt, and trans fluid updated to DEX IV. For well under 6k, you will have a car that will last another 250k miles, even if you use bacon grease for the oil in the 3.8L.
I have personally had two 3800s with 280,000 on them when I sold them.
All depends on what you do with them. There are a bunch of G8s out there with the L76 (6.0 V8) with over 300,000 miles on them and they run mid 13 second 1/4 miles still.
It really depends on who owns them. I have see tons of cars that should make it to 200,000 not make it because of poor maintenance.
Amen, the 3.8's seem to go forever with just basic maintenance. Sadly the supply of those GM cars in my locale has dwindled to nothing.
I agree with this as well. In my experience (not opinion) the GM 3800 is the best engine ever made. I had 350,000 miles on mine when I sold it. My dad's had around 550,000 miles on it when he gave it to one of my nephews. Neither engine leaked or used oil. Mine was ran on GTX and his on PYB.
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Who cares how long or far people drive? Not everyone is a country bumpkin and has a three mile commute, round trip.
I think you have the country bumpkins mixed up with the urban drivers. I would think that country bumpkins would be driving more as they're out in the country. It's the urban dwellers that typically have the shorter commutes, but they tend to be stuck in traffic more.
Who cares how long or far people drive? Not everyone is a country bumpkin and has a three mile commute, round trip.
I think you have the country bumpkins mixed up with the urban drivers. I would think that country bumpkins would be driving more as they're out in the country. It's the urban dwellers that typically have the shorter commutes, but they tend to be stuck in traffic more.
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Accord Sport. Nothing wrong with their CVT transmission.
The jury is still out on that, we'll see how it goes. Honda has a reputation for having automatic transmission problems going back many years. Also, CVT automatics have had a higher failure rate in heavier and higher horsepower vehicles. They are an inherently light-duty transmission design. Toyota only uses a CVT in the lighter weight, lower horsepower Corolla (Toyota's Hybrid CVT is a totally different design).
The Honda CVT in the Accords has been around since 2013. Bazillions of miles on those cars. Sure, there have been some problematic Honda transmissions; name a maker that hasn't had transmission issues. Honda has a stellar reputation that is well earned. The AT in Hondas has oftentimes been the longest lasting part of the drivetrain; that's saying something.
And our 2018 RX450h has a CVT (see UncleDave's post) as well. Lexus cars are hardly lightweights, especially AWD hybrids.
Like I said...
"Toyota's HYBRID CVT is a totally different design".
Toyota's HYBRID CVT is mechanical gearing design that uses planetary and epicyclic gearsets, NOT belts.
Remember, the OP is looking for something that will last for 300k miles. IMO there isn't a belt drive CVT automatic that will last that long. Aisin gear type automatics definitely will.
Sorry, I thought you said Toyota only uses CVT in light weight cars like Corolla.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Accord Sport. Nothing wrong with their CVT transmission.
The jury is still out on that, we'll see how it goes. Honda has a reputation for having automatic transmission problems going back many years. Also, CVT automatics have had a higher failure rate in heavier and higher horsepower vehicles. They are an inherently light-duty transmission design. Toyota only uses a CVT in the lighter weight, lower horsepower Corolla (Toyota's Hybrid CVT is a totally different design).
The Honda CVT in the Accords has been around since 2013. Bazillions of miles on those cars. Sure, there have been some problematic Honda transmissions; name a maker that hasn't had transmission issues. Honda has a stellar reputation that is well earned. The AT in Hondas has oftentimes been the longest lasting part of the drivetrain; that's saying something.
And our 2018 RX450h has a CVT (see UncleDave's post) as well. Lexus cars are hardly lightweights, especially AWD hybrids.
Like I said...
"Toyota's HYBRID CVT is a totally different design".
Toyota's HYBRID CVT is mechanical gearing design that uses planetary and epicyclic gearsets, NOT belts.
Remember, the OP is looking for something that will last for 300k miles. IMO there isn't a belt drive CVT automatic that will last that long. Aisin gear type automatics definitely will.
Sorry, I thought you said Toyota only uses CVT in light weight cars like Corolla.
Toyota Camry 4 cylinder will do 400k!
So will the v-6
My mom still has her 1994 Toyota Camry with 380k miles.... its just needs a fuel pump and some seafoam ran through it and it would still run and burns less than a quart of oil in 10k mules
So will the v-6
My mom still has her 1994 Toyota Camry with 380k miles.... its just needs a fuel pump and some seafoam ran through it and it would still run and burns less than a quart of oil in 10k mules
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Mazdas still have a real transmission in them.
Im blown away how much car my kid just bought for 20K with the mazda 3.
UD
Agreed; take a look at Mazda. Their reliability is very high.
Originally Posted by dblshock
btw: welcome, always nice to have another CAFE aware poster.
Hear, hear.
Mazdas still have a real transmission in them.
Im blown away how much car my kid just bought for 20K with the mazda 3.
UD
Agreed; take a look at Mazda. Their reliability is very high.
Originally Posted by dblshock
btw: welcome, always nice to have another CAFE aware poster.
Hear, hear.
Originally Posted by Reggaemon
The fact that to get heated seats in a Camry you need to upgrade to a $35,000 XLE or XSE takes it out of the running for me.
This is just not true.
A dealer install will run you $300-$400 and you can get it on any trim level you want.
The fact that to get heated seats in a Camry you need to upgrade to a $35,000 XLE or XSE takes it out of the running for me.
This is just not true.
A dealer install will run you $300-$400 and you can get it on any trim level you want.
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