The modern collector car market, and cars that are victim of said market

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

US-market Volkswagen Touraeg V10 TDI
The new Lincoln Continental
There may be others, can't immediately think of...

I sometimes think about modern cars that have become "victims" of the new car "collector market." I sometimes see YouTubers (some of whom I cannot stand, some that fancy themselves "wealth coaches") that, long story short, buy up cars - the new Ford GT40, maybe? At least the mid-2000s one.. - and hold onto them for very long times, waiting for them to appreciate in value. As such, almost all of them (all of them?) get gobbled up by the individuals that can financially afford to do so, and I suppose the end goal is to treat it as a business and sell them at a profit. Ed Bolian and whoever this other guy is that's not Hoovie possibly come to mind. (Great jokes about Hoovie in the comments section there, by the way.)



So then. In doing that, WE generally don't get to purchase the cars? As far as I know, it is not like there are enough models produced to go around.

On a side note. I do not think the EV craze will have staying power as many think it will. For some? Sure.. and they probably are already using it. I think that the market will market-adjust sometime around late 2024, early 2025 in a best case scenario (in a worst case scenario, the present trajectory of whatever that is with EVs and trying to extinct ICE vehicles may continue..) and that EVs will remain a "some not all" kind of thing. I'm speaking of grandiose attempts to force infrastructure away from traditional means, kicking the door shut on the way out and essentially going and into.... well look. I won't go TOO into detail, and I don't claim to be an expert. Just the same way that we will never see nuclear powered, hydrogen powered, or flying vehicles (there are nuclear powered submarines but that's different. You also won't see nuclear or hydrogen powered planes or trains,) I don't think that the ICE vehicle...

... is going anywhere. It will stay. Sure, Lamborghini might be forced to go turbo and hybrid to meet some kind of CAFE scheme for VAG since its V12 models are perhaps having their farewell models.. but nameplates keep coming back... maybe the V12 is the biggest loser in all of this. Having to be offset by other lesser engines for that, at least here ....

.. but that, again, makes me reference what this thread was about in the first place: What other cars have been hoarded by the "collector" marketplace? Who are the "collectors?"

And, then.. who, then, buys the cars from these "collectors?" Or do they simply forever stay in a garage to be looked at, or be in Robb Report?

 

[LostInTransit]

So, I get an email last week from a vintage car club inviting me to attend their events. These events run throughout the year and we're asked to attend local events. Even though we may end up going to several of these events, in the back of my mind I'm asking why would a vintage car club invite us to attend some of their events.

Two things are possible, first, maybe some of the participants of this event want to see the van and what we've done to it. or maybe the van (being extinct) could be the future of collecting cars for the vintage car community or even the hotrod community. at least that how we look at it.

Plus it's not so much the collector aspect, old car and trucks are being snatched up because the American public is getting tired of these EV and electronical controlled vehicles. I've told my wife, One day I'll be driving a rat rod just so I don't have to deal with all this junk automakers install on these new cars.

 

[Fla]

One day I'll be driving a rat rod just so I don't have to deal with all this junk automakers install on these new cars.

This is me. I'm sick of the nanny features that they're putting on all of the new cars. There is absolutely no car on the current market that I would own. I'm currently looking at buying a 1955 sports car. I can can buy a fully restored one for far less money than any of the new cars on the market.

 

[LostInTransit]

@Fla The wife says I have underlaying issue with wanting a sports car. This is due to my father promising me a 1958 C class. But died and didn't include the car in the will for me. So in my mind if I wanted a sport car (older or newer) I can't fit into the new cars because of back limitations, I'll have to make one for myself. The van has the best of several worlds.. Mazda engine, Focus suspension etc.. so it's our sports car with room in the back to sleep.

 

[Passport1]

From conversations with attendees at classic car shows about their vehicles and the future of them I get the feeling it is glum. The
#1 reason is that many millennials have little interest in cars and less in the classic ones. Seems they are't likely to spend money on one. Ditto for motorcycles. Because of the expense and maintenance issues most collectable cars are owned by older (and wealthier) 'gearheads'.
Also imagine in 30 years from now a car show displaying early examples of EVs? Not going to happen.

Collector market might be like this just before the 'Black Swan'.

 

[LostInTransit]

My thought here is that at some point classic are buffs, ground pounders and car shows in general will be removed completely and not that I want this.. but our Government wasn't this. They don't want you to drive your old cars around using loads of gasoline with flames coming out of your tailpipe. Once this happen, then NASCAR and other racing events will be gone forever. One bright spot.. SCCA has banned electric cars from their events. If you value your ground pounder then you need to stand up and be heard and I don't mean just the engine I mean your voice. Attended these car shows and help support those holding. Fire stations and alike need your support for the hosting these events. I like the classic cars just as much as the next guys simply because I grew up around them and watching the race, working on this and building models of them. I guess if you've never been around other car buff who own classic cars or garages that work on these cars. then you're missing something that may not be around much longer.

 

[ls1mike]

I don't know what to think...What I can tell you is that I never expected to see clean 98 to 02 WS6s selling for what they are on average 15,000 to 30,000 dollars. Some even more. People still buy them I think it is stupid, but what do I know. The people who buy them, that I can see range from 22 to 65. I mean I love my WS6, but it still a 23-year-old F-body.

The only nanny feature is traction control, and this is turned off with a switch. I am letting my kid have the WS6 when he gets his first real job. I rarely drive it. He drives it more than I do these days. He loves it. Maybe I will be pick up a C5 or C6. Maybe just a nice CTS (I mean I will be 49 this year).

It is late millennials and early Gen Z. I am smack dab in the middle of Gen X. My kid is Gen Z and he and his buddies love cars. People are going to buy what they like. People that age, at least what I see, are into stuff like Civics, Integra GSRs, FRSs, BRZs, STIs, WRXs, you get the picture. They like cars, but they don't want an old heavy muscle car. I mean I like a Chevelle, 442, Nova, C3, but even my WS6 is faster, stops better and turns better so I get it. I also understand is about the complete experience too. It is about nostalgia for each individual person. Personally, I would like a nice Grand National, Impala SS or 3rd Gen F-body. Heck even a nice Dodge Daytona Shelby. Even all of those are getting super pricey. If you have not driven a new Mustang GT/Camaro SS/Challenger, you are missing out. Low 12 to 11 and half second 1/4 miles and very comfortable cursing down the highway, with good MPG and handling to back it up. All bone stock. A good set of tires and a tune will have some them touching high 10's

I can sum it up like this. I had a buddy, Jim Fraley, He is in his 70's now. Before his dad passed in 2010 we would take him to car shows.
We saw a beautiful 69 GTO judge for sale, he had one when he was younger. It was pricey. His words were "It was crap new and it is crap now. I would not pay half of what the guy is asking." I couldn't stop laughing. It isn't just the young kids.

 

[Kurtatron]

So, I get an email last week from a vintage car club inviting me to attend their events. These events run throughout the year and we're asked to attend local events. Even though we may end up going to several of these events, in the back of my mind I'm asking why would a vintage car club invite us to attend some of their events.

Two things are possible, first, maybe some of the participants of this event want to see the van and what we've done to it. or maybe the van (being extinct) could be the future of collecting cars for the vintage car community or even the hotrod community. at least that how we look at it.

Plus it's not so much the collector aspect, old car and trucks are being snatched up because the American public is getting tired of these EV and electronical controlled vehicles. I've told my wife, One day I'll be driving a rat rod just so I don't have to deal with all this junk automakers install on these new cars.

What van is that?

 

[97prizm]

I see some 90s vehicle starting to really appreciate. When I worked at a Lexus dealership in 2016-2017 years ago the dealership managers brother had a mint condition Mk IV supra he picked up for 40 grand. I said they will be 100k and 200k cars in less than a decade. We're already seeing it.

 

[two-up]

Homepage

The world leader in live auctions of collector and classic cars, antique motorcycles, vintage tractors and Road Art memorabilia with events across the US.

www.mecum.com

 

[Fla]

From conversations with attendees at classic car shows about their vehicles and the future of them I get the feeling it is glum. The
#1 reason is that many millennials have little interest in cars and less in the classic ones. Seems they are't likely to spend money on one. Ditto for motorcycles. Because of the expense and maintenance issues most collectable cars are owned by older (and wealthier) 'gearheads'.
Also imagine in 30 years from now a car show displaying early examples of EVs? Not going to happen.

Collector market might be like this just before the 'Black Swan'.

View attachment 150405

I was reading something from one of the classic car discussions about this a week or two ago and they quoted that even Jay Leno is talking (seriously!) about the drop in valve of many antique and classic cars. He attributed it to the fact that many people want cars that were around when they were kids or young people but for some cars such at the model-Ts, that audience is dead or rapidly dying off. He commented on the severe drop in value of model As and model Ts. I've been looking at some of the 1950s MGs and Geico tracks the insured and payout value on them and they noted a 6% drop in value over the past year and some drop in value in the proceeding years so it appears that Jay's prediction is already affecting the 1950s cars. There are several very nice 1950s MGs for sale in my area and the owners are all people that are now in their mid 80s and some in their 90s and they simply can't drive and can't enjoy their cars any longer so they're up for sale.

If I was someone that was concerned about the long term investment value of a car, the move to ban the sale of gas powered cars would concern me greatly. That will ultimately limit the availability of gasoline and an owner's ability to buy gas, even for an old car. And if the ban of the sale of new gas powered cars in California and other areas actually happens, I would not be surprised to see states like California ban driving of ANY petroleum powered vehicle regardless of it's age.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I believe the calssic car hobby is dying for 2 main reasons:
1 - The collectors and speculators ruined the hobby. The cars got too expensive. People loved the cars but were priced out. I have so much $$ in my old Vette... I gave it to my BIL up in Washington to have fun with. Parts availability gets worse all the time unless it's a Stang, Camaro, Vette, etc.
2 - Younger people are not interested. They weren't alive when 289 Mustangs, GTOs, Chevelles and Roadrunners roamed the earth.

@Trav might like these cars... My 68 Plain Jane L36, pretty much all stock:

My BIL's 62 Fuelie, before and after:

 

[JHZR2]

I think it’s a few things..

1) people want comfort. A lot of cars certainly aren’t. An old 50s or 60s car (or older) with no AC? Lousy stereo?

2) the performance was overrated. A v6 family sedan has similar performance to many muscle cars back in the day.

3) price of the big names. As much as I’d like a chevelle ss or a big block vette, they’re just way too expensive. Especially when you refer to 1 and 2.

4) availability of parts. Even some of my Daimler parts are becoming NLA.

5) cost of labor. The cost of any work that’s needed, mechanical or body, is going up and up. And the quality from many of these “experts” is lower than desired. It’s hard to do a lot of this stuff, and if you can’t diy, it costs you.

 

[Ronsant]

I think there will be enough gasoline to run ICE vehicles for a few more decades and then maybe ICE transitions to hobby, like horses when cars took over. People still ride horses but as a hobby. My worry about the “newer” 90’s and 20xx muscle/ sport cars is can we keep them going once the computers and circuit boards start to go?
I have a C6 Vette, and wonder how long I can keep it running and everything working as parts get discontinued all the time.
Same concerns for a new Camero, Challenger, etc. can you imagine how much computing power there is in a Hellcat? What do you do in 20 years when the main control screen goes?
I feel that there is a better chance to keep a non computerized ICE going in perpetuity ( so long as you can find gas)

 

[AmBeRnEcTaR]

To answer the OP's question, 90's-early 2000's Lexus comes to mind.
The entire line. The LS, SC, and iS being the notable ones fetching fair wallet these days.
I'm currently looking for a mint CT 200h for my daily.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Anything that can accelerate very quickly has always had a place in the collector car world and traditionally anything with a large displacement engine or a high revving European engine has held their value well

I’m going to stick my neck out and say that any Tesla Model S with the name “Ludicrous” will keep their value, after the initial dip as a used car, and another dip just before it gets its battery re-build.

Here are some 0 to 60 times.

 

[Kurtatron]

I so wish I could own a vintage car. I just love the styling of older vehicles. I don’t care for performance. 120 horsepower? That’s fine with me.

I search Hemmings.com, and find that the big issue is money. If I want parts to be available, i need a recognizable model, but recognizable models cost money. It all comes down to money. Maybe something like this is all I will be able to afford someday. A shame it has no AC!

 

[svtrit]

My dad got rid of his Barracuda, which he bought new in 74, because the Mustang he has now is way more comfortable, gets way better mileage, and goes as quick in the 1/4 mile stock as his well built Cuda did, and doesn’t stink when driving it.

I don’t own that Barracuda because I couldn’t afford it, I don’t have the skill to fix the stuff that was needing to be fixed, and I don’t have the time. I still wish I had it, but I would have probably sold it shortly after anyway, due to it needing more than I can fix.

I’ve actually started to lose interest in old cars as well due to the fact I could go buy a newer Challenger, drive it year round, then get another one when salt eats the first one up. The Barracuda would have been parked for preservation in the winter.

My 95 Wrangler needs its engine swapped or rebuilt. I don’t want to get rid of the Jeep, but I don’t want to do the engine work either. I really don’t want to pay someone else to do it, as that would be more than the Jeep is worth. So, I may sell it and move on with life to less expensive, but as fun things to do.

I was talking to a old fella at an antique tractor show. He was worried his collection would not be well cared for when he passes because none of his kids enjoy them. The antique tractor market is very cold, with the exception being very rare models, or low hour originals. Plus the cost to restore is way more than what you could sell them for.

People don’t have the space, or money for all the stuff us Gen X and older kids lusted after. I never thought Dads Cuda would not be in my garage. I’d have killed for that car 20 years ago.

My Les Paul guitar requires much less space, cost to maintain, or time to fix and provides hours of entertainment. It’s valuable, but not an early model. That’s more in line with what kids want these days, as I can see with my oldest son who seems to have permanently borrowed my Les Paul to hang with his 8 other guitars.

 

[Kira]

Kurktatron's '49 Plymouth post made me laugh.
A PHENOMONONLY mechanically disinclined guy I knew stumbled upon a 1950 black pig of a 4 door Buick.
He'd openly admit to buying it because that was the year he was conceived.
I think that time marker is icky and oddly personal.

I remember the moldy thing being a 'Special"; not sure.
I always found the car revolting. I never even looked under the hood. I remember not sitting in it.
It's rotting away in a barn years after the guy's passing.

 

[Fla]

My dad got rid of his Barracuda, which he bought new in 74, because the Mustang he has now is way more comfortable, gets way better mileage, and goes as quick in the 1/4 mile stock as his well built Cuda did, and doesn’t stink when driving it.

I don’t own that Barracuda because I couldn’t afford it, I don’t have the skill to fix the stuff that was needing to be fixed, and I don’t have the time. I still wish I had it, but I would have probably sold it shortly after anyway, due to it needing more than I can fix.

I’ve actually started to lose interest in old cars as well due to the fact I could go buy a newer Challenger, drive it year round, then get another one when salt eats the first one up. The Barracuda would have been parked for preservation in the winter.

My 95 Wrangler needs its engine swapped or rebuilt. I don’t want to get rid of the Jeep, but I don’t want to do the engine work either. I really don’t want to pay someone else to do it, as that would be more than the Jeep is worth. So, I may sell it and move on with life to less expensive, but as fun things to do.

I was talking to a old fella at an antique tractor show. He was worried his collection would not be well cared for when he passes because none of his kids enjoy them. The antique tractor market is very cold, with the exception being very rare models, or low hour originals. Plus the cost to restore is way more than what you could sell them for.

People don’t have the space, or money for all the stuff us Gen X and older kids lusted after. I never thought Dads Cuda would not be in my garage. I’d have killed for that car 20 years ago.

My Les Paul guitar requires much less space, cost to maintain, or time to fix and provides hours of entertainment. It’s valuable, but not an early model. That’s more in line with what kids want these days, as I can see with my oldest son who seems to have permanently borrowed my Les Paul to hang with his 8 other guitars.

Sheesh. I had a '74 Barracuda but I lost it in a divorce. To add insult to injury, the x then took it to a Stealership and they convinced her that it needed a lot of work and wasn't worth fixing and they convinced her to trade it in on an absolute POS Plymouth Horizon. I'm sure that one of the sales-creeps was laughing about that one all of the way to the bank! Mine had the 318 engine and an automatic and the sport wheels and had never been hotrodded and was a great driving car.