Ya. Hard to tell bad engineering vs an unforeseen problem. Take the BMW N20/N26/N47 4 cylinders which are TGDI and had chain problems, but that's not the first time BMW has had timing chain problems (S62, M62, M52) and some TGDI engines don't have this problem (N54/N55).
Are the days of the 10k OCI over with?
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Exactly.
It seems like we don't have enough data with regards to oil and chain related issues at least not on bitog ... Is that correct in general?
Now excluding the generic and universal responses like "shorten your OCI", "Use a grade thicker than spec", "go Euro", ... that may universally apply to ANY situation and could be beneficial in general and doing no harm ... and maybe not necessarily doing any good either (depending on the use conditions) but that's besides the point.
Here is the question , are there any specs (GM, Euro, API, etc.) that deals with chain related issues? Lets say that HELPS a bad design or is more advantageous to use.
I never had a chain problem and didn't pay huge attention to the remedies and if this has been discussed before my sincere apologies! lol
Now excluding the generic and universal responses like "shorten your OCI", "Use a grade thicker than spec", "go Euro", ... that may universally apply to ANY situation and could be beneficial in general and doing no harm ... and maybe not necessarily doing any good either (depending on the use conditions) but that's besides the point.
Here is the question , are there any specs (GM, Euro, API, etc.) that deals with chain related issues? Lets say that HELPS a bad design or is more advantageous to use.
I never had a chain problem and didn't pay huge attention to the remedies and if this has been discussed before my sincere apologies! lol
a few years ago, my plan was once a year oil changes - every spring, no matter how many miles while using Mobil 1 5W20 Annual Protection (is that still around?) and a Fram Ultra filter.... I am happy the car was totaled (deer) before the first year oil change... I got cold feet a couple months after that, and decided against a once a year oil change especially with a Hyundai 2.4L direct injected motor and timing chain setup. I also started to using only OEM filters around that time.
I am now "all Euro" The Sonata 2.4L DI and Kia 2.4L MPI both get M1 Euro 5W30 with OEM filters, and changed no more than every 5K.
When Hyundai wants thousands of dollars for an engine replacement, (or a He77a fight for the warrantee coverage) I see the 5W30 Euro oil as "cheap insurance", and do not mind changing it "early" for piece of mind..
Yes I know the oil cap calls for 5W20 in both engines.. But the 0.01% decrease in fuel mileage is worth the extra protection.
I am now "all Euro" The Sonata 2.4L DI and Kia 2.4L MPI both get M1 Euro 5W30 with OEM filters, and changed no more than every 5K.
When Hyundai wants thousands of dollars for an engine replacement, (or a He77a fight for the warrantee coverage) I see the 5W30 Euro oil as "cheap insurance", and do not mind changing it "early" for piece of mind..
Yes I know the oil cap calls for 5W20 in both engines.. But the 0.01% decrease in fuel mileage is worth the extra protection.
I fully agree with our decision. I only use full synthetic dexos 1 gen 3 rated 5W-30 oil in my Hondas and change the oil every 4k/6 months. The Euro 5W-30's are even better.
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Well just to throw my hat in the ring here.. There isn't anything (necessarily or by default) wrong with 10k or extended past that OCIs. 10,000 miles. Even Supertech's mid-grade oil (the blend.. not about Supertech here ok) says it should be OK for that long.
Unless you have a DI or other known fuel diluter engine. Then it's probably not ok.. due specifically to the fuel dilution.
Talk of this and that or old vs new Toyotas aside, let's shift focus a little, the Taurus in the signature is north of 12k on an OCI as you read this and will likely be pushed a little farther than that mostly because SCIENCE! Oil color isn't a valid test of oil goodness.. the color looks good, I'll take a dipstick
when I get home. Oil engine feel isn't a valid test.. engine feels OK. I'd be willing to take some oil and maybe have a UOA done. Inside of that engine is probably very clean but I don't "know" that either. Who's down to see a UOA on the 2004 Taurus oil?
TBN is usually the determining factor on if you can go longer on your OCI, right? I feel most would do an oil change of 5k or 6k.. maybe a 7.5k here or there. But here is the thing.. every up-and-coming or established YouTuber that likes to hear themselves talk will tell you "change it when it gets dark" or Scotty Kilmer famous line, with that **** Toyota Celica he will have until the end of time, "Change your oil, change it often." Different spins on how oil does so much, you want to change it a lot to keep it fresh. Not like that's valid, this IS BITOG..... For me, personally, it's kind of a good way to snap out of OCD oil changing (OCD is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, not an OCI typo) where, and I've been this person, you have an oil in the sump for about 2k miles and think "I have to change it." HPL motor oil can do extended drains, I think @High Performance Lubricants would have to jump in if that's incorrect however I recall that as one of its positive attributes.
It's all relative. If your oil smells like gas you might not want to go 10k on an OCI... Some go longer than that, their engine probably can handle it, no fuel dilution....
OLMs don't go by simple mile/timer calculation anymore, don't they do some sort of chemical test on the oil?
Unless you have a DI or other known fuel diluter engine. Then it's probably not ok.. due specifically to the fuel dilution.
Talk of this and that or old vs new Toyotas aside, let's shift focus a little, the Taurus in the signature is north of 12k on an OCI as you read this and will likely be pushed a little farther than that mostly because SCIENCE! Oil color isn't a valid test of oil goodness.. the color looks good, I'll take a dipstick
when I get home. Oil engine feel isn't a valid test.. engine feels OK. I'd be willing to take some oil and maybe have a UOA done. Inside of that engine is probably very clean but I don't "know" that either. Who's down to see a UOA on the 2004 Taurus oil?TBN is usually the determining factor on if you can go longer on your OCI, right? I feel most would do an oil change of 5k or 6k.. maybe a 7.5k here or there. But here is the thing.. every up-and-coming or established YouTuber that likes to hear themselves talk will tell you "change it when it gets dark" or Scotty Kilmer famous line, with that **** Toyota Celica he will have until the end of time, "Change your oil, change it often." Different spins on how oil does so much, you want to change it a lot to keep it fresh. Not like that's valid, this IS BITOG..... For me, personally, it's kind of a good way to snap out of OCD oil changing (OCD is Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, not an OCI typo) where, and I've been this person, you have an oil in the sump for about 2k miles and think "I have to change it." HPL motor oil can do extended drains, I think @High Performance Lubricants would have to jump in if that's incorrect however I recall that as one of its positive attributes.
It's all relative. If your oil smells like gas you might not want to go 10k on an OCI... Some go longer than that, their engine probably can handle it, no fuel dilution....
OLMs don't go by simple mile/timer calculation anymore, don't they do some sort of chemical test on the oil?
Manufacturers seldom, if ever, change the OCI to a longer recommended interval, once the engines are in the field.
More often, problems arise in the field, the OCI is reduced, and new oil specs are introduced.
But, there is no broad brush. Some engines and use patterns, and oils, are fine at 10k or beyond, even far beyond.
But, not all.
No broad brush.
More often, problems arise in the field, the OCI is reduced, and new oil specs are introduced.
But, there is no broad brush. Some engines and use patterns, and oils, are fine at 10k or beyond, even far beyond.
But, not all.
No broad brush.
How do you know if your engine dilutes fuel?
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Jag/Land Rover, etc … The list goes on …
(with those two, probably had something AND a timing chain
) LoLThe Euro approvals typically have a chain wear requirement using one of their engines but the details and what constitutes a pass/fail are unknown.
The chainwear test under SP is a 4 cylinder ecoboost which has modified rings in order to introduce a high* amount of blow-by.
* 65-75 L/min
https://www.intertek.com/automotive/sequence-x/
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10K Mile oil changes were never a thing with me ... Mixed driving in a large suburban area meant 5K mile OCI's max for me - now with DI engines that has been dropped back to 4K mile OCI's (which are black in color when the oil comes out) .
No, you should send oil samples
Has anyone on here had an oil related engine issue when following a manufacturers oil change regimen that happens to be what many consider "extended". 10K miles? The wifes Highlander ran 10K changes until Covid hit and currently shows just under 140,000 miles. It seems pretty happy.
MB 229.5 and later MB 229.x approvals had chain test sequence for a long time.
10K miles (15 000/16 000 km or one year) are the lower end of recommended OCI here in Europe. Two years and up to 40/50 000 km (i.e. 30k miles) is the other end. I have heard that some of the oils looked more like grease after the 20/30 kmiles.
I have seen Mobil1 FS 0w-40 after 13kmiles of really spirited driving (most of the time 4000 -6000 rpm)- it was a good fortune this oil was used and at the same time, I made sure that all the next OCIs were close to 7k miles.
Toyota "ZZ" engines had oil-related issues that would have been (in some cases) preventable by using better oil and shorter OCIs. My father had one of them (1ZZ-FE) and his easy-on-oil driving style and long trips were the reason for missing the extended warranty by a few months. Had he used much worse oil the failure would appear during the extended warranty period. Had he used better oil and shorter OCIs would have helped too, but he strictly followed the 10k miles to save money. The use of average oil and long OCIs was a wrong combination.
Two of my colleagues have cars with "VW" engines that consume oil - stuck rings are the result of long OCIs - they followed the recommended OCI schedule and of course, the problems started once all the warranties were over (100 000 km+).
Yep. They are over with. I will sample it when I get to 10K miles (Mobil1 0W-40) and if its OK I'll go to 15K. The Fram Titanium filter is good for 20K miles
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I think it really depends on the engine, some can handle it, maybe some can’t.
The Highlander has an engine that personally I think can handle 10,000 mile intervals, yet others might not. You see manufacturers scale back intervals on occasion - I imagine that’s because they had run into issues with whatever interval they were recommending (and reduced it).
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The thing is, do we know if those trouble engines wouldn’t have issues with the “shorter“ intervals, of say 5,000 miles compared to 10,000? I assume we’re talking oil consumption. I find that oil consumption on engines with inherent known engine flaws (maybe it’s rings, maybe it’s something else) will likely still have issues even with shorter intervals. Maybe you can prevent those issues for a little while longer, but those issues are still coming, and there’s not a whole lot you can do about it. Meanwhile you have an engine that is “easy on oil”, and those vehicles go the 10,000 miles,or more, and don’t run into the issues. So, I think it really depends...and I’d add type of driving style to that mix as well (City, towing, hauling, extreme cold, short trips, dusty environments, etc). IMO.
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I think this is an interesting perspective because there is that breaking point where if you bail on the car you’ll actually get something for it, whereas if you keep it past that threshold it is going to take some blood sweat and tears (and money) or the car will ultimately be worth nothing.
I do find that the people that will push through that threshold ultimately save the most money...doing that expensive repair/repairs, putting in the effort (adding oil to an oil burner), repairing the suspension issues, even paint/body issues (a little rust)...will ultimately “win” in the money/finances portion of the whole thing, but for others that’s not the most important aspect.
I‘ve usually bailed when it got to the point where I had an oil burner on my hands; to go along with an expensive repair (upwards of $2,000) plus other items that needed attention all at once (usually tires, brakes, staring me in the face at over $1,000). At that point I’m usually sitting there with a vehicle with close to 200,000 miles, maybe a little rust here and there, a few dents, an interior that’s dated and worn, and an engine that’s drinking oil (despite my 5,000 mile oil changes), and I try to get something for the vehicle while I can.
However when I buy that new/newer vehicles, the bills come in...tax title and registration (usually as much as that large repair would have cost), the down payment, my excise tax bill, the dealer “fees”. Before I know it I’m sitting there with $5,000 of out of pocket nothingness before the first car payment even rolls in...and then a carriage rolls into my door while I’m inside some place food shopping. I vowed to myself that I’ll take my current car the “distance”, and I’ve also vowed I’ll do it going 10,000 miles on oil changes. We’ll see if I can hold myself to it.
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