Are the days of the 10k OCI over with?

[4WD]

Nobody ever considers sump capacity, which might be factor #1.

When the 5.3’s went to GDI - they bumped up to 8 quarts …
Always assumed that was why? - but I still don’t push it - try to find good prices on the oil instead …

 

[53' Stude]

View attachment 169975

 

[OVERKILL]

If someone wants to do 10K, or 5K is a personal choice.

OLM are not designed for the MAX longevity of the vehicle they are designed for the vehicle to meet design life expectations..

OLM's vary significantly in their design. Some, like the Toyota one, are just a basic mileage counter. These are obviously the least accurate, others, like the Stellantis and GM ones, vary the interval based on parameters like operating temperature, speed, hours, oil temperature, number of starts...etc that more appropriately captures and accommodates the operating profile of the equipment than just dumping the sump every x number of miles.

Oil kept in a sump for longer intervals will have higher contaminants that shorter interval oil. the oil may be fine but you are relying on your filter to keep those particles from the engine.

Again, depends on the operating conditions. An engine short tripped for 3,000 miles could have considerably higher contamination levels than an engine with highway miles driven 10,000 miles.

99% efficiency = for 1000 particles means 10 particles get through, 99% efficiently of 100 particles means 1 particle gets through.

I personally like less particles and will stick with cleaner oil, which means a shorter OCI for me.

Yet a surprising number of people are comfortable running rock catcher style filters

Oil in a pan also sloshes around even with a windage tray and some of that contaminated oil will get on moving parts of the bottom end.

Which are all pressure-lubed, so I'm not sure how that's going to impact anything?

To each their own.

Sure, but let's try and make that an educated decision not one based on feelings.

 

[OVERKILL]

This does make sense. But if the damage was happening we'd certainly be seeing huge amounts of timing chain issues coming out of vehicles, and GDI has been around since the mid 2000's. So either it's not as big of an issue as we think it is, or the manufacturers are doing something to mitigate the harm. I'd be interested to hear more information on this if you have it. It fascinates me.

Goes back even further than that, Mitsubishi started using it in the mid-late 90's. VW started using it in 2004, which is why I mentioned them earlier.

 

[4WD]

Goes back even further than that, Mitsubishi started using it in the mid-late 90's. VW started using it in 2004, which is why I mentioned them earlier.

1988 for GM …

 

[OVERKILL]

Remember the impact of soot on chain wear is behind API SP.

Sequence X Test

https://www.intertek.com/automotive/sequence-x/

"The Sequence X Test evaluates undesirable timing chain wear in gasoline, turbocharged, direct-injection (GTGI) engines. The test has demonstrated a correlation to observed timing chain wear in the field and provides a means for evaluating the performance of fully formulated engine lubricating oils. The laboratory engine test consists of two stages and runs for a total of 216 hours. The increase in timing chain length determined at the end of test is the primary result."

Yep, I know, see post #136:

I'd be curious to see if VAG products had timing chain issues after they introduced DI, as they were one of the first to do so and they still ran very long intervals. This would give us some additional insight IMHO. I know timing chain wear is now an API test parameter, but it's likely been part of the OE testing protocols for decades with the Euro marques.

 

[vpr5703]

Goes back even further than that, Mitsubishi started using it in the mid-late 90's. VW started using it in 2004, which is why I mentioned them earlier.

1988 for GM …

Wow. Surprising! Thanks for the info.

 

[drtyler]

1988 for GM …

Which engine?

 

[Drew7a]

OLM's vary significantly in their design. Some, like the Toyota one, are just a basic mileage counter. These are obviously the least accurate, others, like the Stellantis and GM ones, vary the interval based on parameters like operating temperature, speed, hours, oil temperature, number of starts...etc that more appropriately captures and accommodates the operating profile of the equipment than just dumping the sump every x number of miles.

Again, depends on the operating conditions. An engine short tripped for 3,000 miles could have considerably higher contamination levels than an engine with highway miles driven 10,000 miles.

Yet a surprising number of people are comfortable running rock catcher style filters

Which are all pressure-lubed, so I'm not sure how that's going to impact anything?

Sure, but let's try and make that an educated decision not one based on feelings.

longer intervals = more particles. I was not comparing city versus highway. Your answers are all trying to obfuscate and stating the obvious.

So what's you point about the OLM basic design. still does not rebut my point that no matter the design, they are not designed to provide maximum engine longevity.

Lets compare 3000 miles short tripped vs. 5000 miles short tripped and 5000 miles highway with 10000 miles highway. Now tell me which has less less particles. (Let me clarify even more, same engine, same oil, same environmental conditions).

Dirty oil sloshing around won't affect the skirts and ring and the bores since those are sealed(OK if you say so.) So based on you premises since it is a pressure lube system, none of the contaminants can get anywhere else since it has to pass the filter first. Dirty oil and heat what is it going to affect you say.

 

[OVERKILL]

longer intervals = more particles. I was not comparing city versus highway. Your answers are all trying to obfuscate and stating the obvious.
So what's you point about the OLM basic design. still does not rebut my point that no matter the design, they are not designed to provide maximum engine longevity.

You missed it, and nothing was obfuscated. In your rush to get offended by the fact that somebody would dare take issue with your statements, the point being made blew right past you. Since you seem more intent on finding a reason to get upset rather than having a civil conversation, I don't see any reason to engage further with you.

 

[userfriendly]

Just a minute, where’s my Greta sound effects button?
HOW DARE YOU

 

[4WD]

Just a minute, where’s my Greta sound effects button?
HOW DHAAH YOU

FIFY

 

[AuthorEditor]

Never had an engine failure in any vehicle no matter what crummy oil I've used and no matter how long the interval. But, I would stick to the manual while in warranty and then go to 6-month or yearly changes as long as they stayed under 10K miles for most vehicles.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yep, I know, see post #136:

Ahh okay well it sounded like, per your follow up post, that didn't think soot played a part in chain wear. Of course I'm assuming the API was given enough data to prove a correlation otherwise there would be no reason to develop the bench test.

I'm just trying to get a lay of the land as to how GDI, and soot, influences timing chain wear and whether there's sufficiently robust evidence to establish an undeniable correlation. If there are examples where it hasn't/doesn't, then that would imply that there are mitigation mechanisms or that the correlation is weak. That is, DI soot may, in controlled testing, result in more wear, but this may not ultimately manifest in timing chain and component wear/failure, that depends, perhaps moreso, on design decisions.

 

[Jpc1623]

Does a UOA show soot in the report?

 

[Kira]

Given the advancement of oil manufacturing and good engine designs these days who needs to change oil to begin with?

NOW you're talking! All those mechanics are thieves. Lifetime Fill for thee win!

 

[OVERKILL]

Ahh okay well it sounded like, per your follow up post, that didn't think soot played a part in chain wear. Of course I'm assuming the API was given enough data to prove a correlation otherwise there would be no reason to develop the bench test.

I'm just wondering how strong the correlation is between soot and chain wear, since we've had GDI engines for decades, but the problems with chain wear seem to range from non-existent to "GM had to redesign an engine" lol, and of course the addition of the API Sequence is new with API SP.

 

[The Critic]

I'm just wondering how strong the correlation is between soot and chain wear, since we've had GDI engines for decades, but the problems with chain wear seem to range from non-existent to "GM had to redesign an engine" lol, and of course the addition of the API Sequence is new with API SP.

 

[4WD]

I think you just can’t produce anything other than top shelf timing chains - many brands have been through this

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/1-of-bmws-engines-is-so-problemmatic-its-the-subject-of-a-lawsuit/

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Are the mods out to lunch this week? - this thread has so many violations of policy I ran out of fingers to count on!

Embarrassing and down right mean.