Even for DI engines I think it is possible. My wife has a 2011 Hyundai Sonata whose engine got to 215k miles before it blew up (due to a factory defect in how the engine was built.) If we assume an average driver does about 12k per year that is almost 18 years of mileage. Like anything else it is down to how it is maintained and driven. We will see how the new (rebuilt...) engine does. But there isn't any rust on the rest of the car and the trans is still shifting fine. So onwards we go.
Are the days of the 10k OCI over with?
- Thread starter zerosoma
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AutoMechanic
Site Donor 2025
Hey man I’m just saying stuff I know. It’s kind of weird I’m a Toyota tech yet some Toyota tech on YouTube is saying stay with 5K and everyone here is praising him but not me. And you guys also do not have the information I have on them spec just to get it out of warranty which I heard directly from the company themselves. And I do know someone who works for the EPA she has said her team is pressuring manufacturers to do longer intervals and use cartridge filters. For reasons that can’t be discussed here but you get the point. Just because you guys don’t have that information doesn’t make it wrong like you’re all claiming here. In fact you can probably go online and find the same information especially regarding the EPA. I cannot share the source from Toyota where I heard that because it’s inside but I can confirm it is true.
And none of my vehicles would fare well on a 10k oil change so I’m comfortable with my 5k or less recommendation. Not necessarily saying it can’t be done but it’s not advisable for most vehicles.
When you own a vehicle it is entirely up to you when you decide to change oil and what oil to use. Personally I did not have my then new GMC oil changed at the dealership even if it was free for two years. I never run my vehicles past 6k and use the oil of my preference. All in all why does anyone here really give two flips what someone else does to their vehicle. This site is for sharing thoughts, experiences, and ideas. If you want a fight, go look in the mirror and slap yourself.
It depends upon the engine, how it's used and convenience is a factor as well.
The Forester calls for 6K intervals on 0W-20, so that's what it gets even though it is PI.
The HAH calls for changes based upon the OLM which would easily allow 10K intervals with its PI engine that spends a lot of miles not even running.
I give it 8-9K changes since this works out nicely with one in the fall when the weather is still nice and one in the spring when nice weather returns. This is around 20% OLM.
The Forester calls for 6K intervals on 0W-20, so that's what it gets even though it is PI.
The HAH calls for changes based upon the OLM which would easily allow 10K intervals with its PI engine that spends a lot of miles not even running.
I give it 8-9K changes since this works out nicely with one in the fall when the weather is still nice and one in the spring when nice weather returns. This is around 20% OLM.
I have watched your success over the years and it has influenced my mindset on this matter for the better.
Now I know half of this lecture is false. Our Lexus/Toyota they make us go 9-9,500 OCI’s. Told my bosses that. So, someone at toyota pulled your leg. Wonder why we are told to go 10k on our land river, Range Rover, BMW, Mercedes, and even Honda.
You should NOT believe YouTube as the gospel either. You need real world experience not just “what they told me”.
Cause it doesn’t hold up as FACT
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
I'm definitely not praising him.
You are saying stuff you've heard. You've yet to invest the mental effort into processing and understanding the topic sufficiently to establish an adequately nuanced view, which comes with a properly developed level of understanding. This is why you are stuck pushing these absolutes based on surface-level understanding, which is also why it is incredibly frustrating interacting with you on these subjects, because you don't show any interest in putting in the mental work, but expect everybody to accept and respect what you say because you've been turning wrenches for a few years. This is often followed-up by you reacting to a post you don't agree with using the laughing emoji, which one must assume means you are braying like a jackass on the other end of the conversation. Definitely not conducive to productive discourse.
The push for extended drain intervals started long before the EPA got involved. This started in Europe and standards were established to ensure that the lubricants were sufficiently robust to be capable of handling those intervals. North America, and the EPA, are late to the party on that. Yes, sometimes an OEM screws something up, or some application ends up being harder on oil than anticipated, but there are many MANY examples of equipment and lubricants capable of the sort of drain intervals we are discussing, or even longer. Many of them are staring you in the face on this very forum, but you absolutely refuse to look at those and expand your understanding of how and why they are possible.
You appear frustrated that more people don't take you seriously. You want respect, you want your experience to mean something. Do something about it, stop being intellectually lazy, read, research, understand the subject matter, put in the necessary mental work so that you understand and can explain WHY, not just repeat some legend or heresy you heard or read somewhere. If you aren't willing to do this, why should we be willing to elevate you or your input?
Given the advancement of oil manufacturing and good engine designs these days who needs to change oil to begin with? motor on and send another sample in 10k miles
Let me present everyone with 2 recent examples:
M1 0W40, 18K - MB GDI application:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2016-mb-e350-mobil-1-0w40-18-092-miles.370385/
M1 EP 0W20, 18K - Toyota 2.5L application:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2016-toyota-rav4-mobil-1-ep-0w20-18-559-miles.370329/
Now, do these UOA’s provide the entire story? I don’t know. But it is a starting point for discussion and the data suggests that the oil was not in dire condition.
M1 0W40, 18K - MB GDI application:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2016-mb-e350-mobil-1-0w40-18-092-miles.370385/
M1 EP 0W20, 18K - Toyota 2.5L application:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2016-toyota-rav4-mobil-1-ep-0w20-18-559-miles.370329/
Now, do these UOA’s provide the entire story? I don’t know. But it is a starting point for discussion and the data suggests that the oil was not in dire condition.
JHZR2
Staff member
Funny, I guess our 94 previa running SG or SH oils didn’t get the memo…
Did you mean hearsay?
JHZR2
Staff member
I wouldn’t praise anyone else. If it’s a shop they’re trying to maximize their revenue too. And in absence of better data or knowledge about use profiles, it’s a good fallback. But that’s what it is, a fallback. Generic info. Running quality oil and following the car’s OCI computer works well. In the absence of the computer, the owner’s awareness of their actual use, without being brainwashed that everything is severe, is good. In absence of either generic info is all you have.
Regarding warranty, that’s really what anything is designed to - there’s always a design longevity and some parameters by which that’s measured. The design life of components is notionally some miles at some temperature and conditions. Service intervals getting a component through warranty doesn’t really correlate to anything. You’re treating it as if they want the engine to fail one mile after. There is definite truth to oil selection being aligned to emissions systems longevity through warranty, and you may be mixing insights associated with that…
I am switching to 3-5k interval in our 2013 Q5 3.0T after running the first 90k on 10k oci's with Castrol 0W-40. The good lubricants can get to 10k from TAN/TBN/oxidation perspective with non-severe conditions. But the GDI soot accumulation is too small to be filtered out and extremely abrasive to timing chains.
Nor if they do away with GDI type engines. The New Toyota dual injection engine may be the first step. Refine that and stop getting a over dose of gas into engines.
I got almost 11,000 on my Accord. One main problem is the driver. Short trips ruin everything from OCI to EGR and clogged PCV. Running that EC30 occasionally is safe and far better than a flush. You are buying a product that you get to keep for longer than 15 minutes in the sump. Cleaning the intake valves isn't a bad idea; start early and be consistent. Quality fuel and a 5-10k maintenance of a premium fuel system cleaner is wise. I think outside of warranty, going up a viscosity grade,higher hths value, group 4&5, and possibly octane especially if it's t-gdi is almost necessary especially if you plan to keep it, modify it,or simply hate throwing a car away. These are just some of my methods and they don't apply to all cars, but it's carried us to the moon 
and back. I don't think GDI is bad, but I think they definitely need bigger oil capacity and on the cap/manual weight suggestions like Hyundai allowing for a higher grade during higher heat operation.
and back. I don't think GDI is bad, but I think they definitely need bigger oil capacity and on the cap/manual weight suggestions like Hyundai allowing for a higher grade during higher heat operation.Attachments
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Always right? What I gather from you is that it's never right. Live a little AM and walk on the wild side.
Interesting!
So you've been in bed with the EPA for the past 45 years! J/K
Don't see you post much! Staying away from thin vs. thick threads? You know all roads long enough, will eventually lead to Rome. lol
Only you have this top secret inside info...come on dude. Nothing you have or know is anything special.
The extended OCI and "the car's computer will tell you when it needs an oil change" are only serving the types of people who buy the vehicle new, and return it within 3-4 years. Most people on this forum probably aren't that, they are either buying a new car with the intention of keeping it for long time and/or racking up the miles, or they are buying used and intending to get the best possible usage/value out of that vehicle.
I don't think one type of maintenance plan will cater for those two types of people. As a fleet operator, I'm happy to go with the manufacturer who has the lowest overall cost over 3-5 years, and I don't care if the engine is knackered by the end of it because it won't be my problem, the lease company will take the car away and do whatever it needs to do to - probably tidy it up and end up on a used car forecourt somewhere. If there is a manufacturer with a 20k OCI (yes there are in
Of course the manufacturers are looking to save money and the government regulators (in the western world at least) are pushing for environmental targets.
All of that combined means that it ain't going away any time soon, or ever.
I have done 7-8k and sometimes even 10k oil changes when my commute was all motorway (aka highway). But nowadays, most of our family cars are driving in the city, with stop and start, medium-hard acceleration between traffic lights and then stopping... rinse and repeat. There is no way they can do 10k. Most of the cars only manage 4-5k per year, so we just go with a yearly OCI - and that oil is BLACK when it comes out on most of the cars. City driving is terrible.
Here's a section from a local BMW dealer website here in the UK:
"Newer model BMW's including all 1 series, X series, 3, 5 and 7 series from 2000 (including M series) include a service management system and will advise when a service is due. This will either be displayed on the dash board display or one of the LCD display screens where fitted.
Typically all new BMW's require a service somewhere between 18,000 and 22,000 miles. However the service management computer will take into account the driving style and environmental conditions and vary the service interval accordingly."
This is one of the reasons that large fleet operators e.g. Police use BMW in Europe.
I don't think one type of maintenance plan will cater for those two types of people. As a fleet operator, I'm happy to go with the manufacturer who has the lowest overall cost over 3-5 years, and I don't care if the engine is knackered by the end of it because it won't be my problem, the lease company will take the car away and do whatever it needs to do to - probably tidy it up and end up on a used car forecourt somewhere. If there is a manufacturer with a 20k OCI (yes there are in
Of course the manufacturers are looking to save money and the government regulators (in the western world at least) are pushing for environmental targets.
All of that combined means that it ain't going away any time soon, or ever.
I have done 7-8k and sometimes even 10k oil changes when my commute was all motorway (aka highway). But nowadays, most of our family cars are driving in the city, with stop and start, medium-hard acceleration between traffic lights and then stopping... rinse and repeat. There is no way they can do 10k. Most of the cars only manage 4-5k per year, so we just go with a yearly OCI - and that oil is BLACK when it comes out on most of the cars. City driving is terrible.
Here's a section from a local BMW dealer website here in the UK:
"Newer model BMW's including all 1 series, X series, 3, 5 and 7 series from 2000 (including M series) include a service management system and will advise when a service is due. This will either be displayed on the dash board display or one of the LCD display screens where fitted.
Typically all new BMW's require a service somewhere between 18,000 and 22,000 miles. However the service management computer will take into account the driving style and environmental conditions and vary the service interval accordingly."
This is one of the reasons that large fleet operators e.g. Police use BMW in Europe.
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