Are Patched tires no longer with safety top speed specification

Messages
1,715
Location
Texas & BWI Area
Supposed you got a nail smack dab in the center of the tire. Car sits overnite and gradually depressurizes. It now flat, you replace with spare and have the real tire patched. A)Since the sidewall bent out over nite under the vehicles weight is it no severely weakened or damaged? B)Is it true patched tires no longer meet a manafacturers top speed rating specification? The tire is Z (W) rated, my concern is being at 90 or above then blowing out and well...lets not go there. I am even considering patching it, then getting a brand new tire on there this week to replace it. The safety risk is my concern.
 

DJ

Messages
749
Location
New London WI
If the spare is not a match to the other tires I might throw a plug in the popped tire and drive on it till a new one arived. Actually that is what I did when I put a nail in between the tread and sidewall of a 1200mile old Z rated tire($150-205 apiece [Frown] ) and I took it easy till the new one arrived. The location of your damage is less of a problem area but I still may not push the tire to it's limits.
 
Messages
699
Location
Texas
quote:
Originally posted by VaderSS: Due to legal matters, tires loose their speed rating if punctured, but it really depends on the quality of the repair. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/punctures.jsp
That's exactly what I thought, but in Road & Track, they posed that question to Michelin and they said if you patch it (obviously only in the tread, not shoulder) the speed rating still applies. Maybe Michelin does something no one else does? [I dont know]
 
Messages
2,635
Location
Chicago
Slightly [Off Topic!] Remember what the truckers say: "There are old drivers and there are bold drivers - but there are no old bold drivers." Hopefully when you are doing 90+ MPH and have a wreck you don't "take out" some poor innocent people.
 
Messages
3,094
Location
Metro Detroit
If you didn't drive on the flat tire, the damage to the sidewall would be very minimal, if any. I've driven on patched tires for tens of thousands of miles with no problems, with some of that time, although not much, at 90 - 100 mph. The car is driven at 70 - 75 on a fairly regular basis, though. I think your biggest concern is the patch failing and the tire deflating. I would expect that you'd be able to control the car well enough to come to a safe stop in this circumstance, though. In my experience, the tire will start making noise long before it's fully deflated. Anything's possible, though, so if I was a tire maker, I would certainly cover my butt by removing the speed rating if any damage was ever done to the tire.
 
Messages
95
Location
Ogden, UT
When I was still working in the shop, the plugs that we used were a plug/patch style. It was impossible for them to lose the plug and the patch because they were one. If the patch did in fact fail, you would still have the plug that would hold the air in long enough for you to safely come to a stop.
 
Messages
12,385
Location
Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by ExDelayed: When I was still working in the shop, the plugs that we used were a plug/patch style. It was impossible for them to lose the plug and the patch because they were one.
Sounds a bit like what I saw on display in an America's Tire store. The plug had a mushroom shaped head and was installed from the inside so it couldn't pull through. It was also bonded to the inside of the tire. For motorcycle tires, where the discussion understandably gets even more emotional.... The reasonable approach seems to be using that type of plug, for minor holes in the tread area only. Then down rating the tire one speed rating. I take the same approach on car tires.
 

outrun

Thread starter
Messages
1,715
Location
Texas & BWI Area
I assure you guys i making these speeds only under ideal conditions. A)totally dry road surface B)car at full maintenence (obscessive that is) C)1/2 to 3/4 mile space in front of me D) familiarity with all curves ahead E) no throttle on curves f) sprints on straights g)only during daylight and light to minimal traffic I am doing this not to be reckless but to prepare myself for my germany trip. Prepare I must for the great autobahn. Oh yeah, and 90-100 mph is not really speeding by that standard. 120mph was kind of scary...tunnel vision! 90-100 i find very comfortable and less nervous. Shame I have to train myself illegally for high speed driving. If the speed limit is 70 and its 20 mph over thats is not tooo bad considering everyone else is cruising at 80.
 
Messages
3,939
Location
Somewhere in the US
A couple of thoughts: Over the speed limit is OVER the speed limit. If 10 is bad, 20 is worse! (but I understand what you mean!) In Europe, and Germany in partcular, the man who repairs the tire is responsible for it! So if something bad happens, the guy who did the repair must now answer for it. In the US, I doubt you could get the guys doing repairs to do it correctly, let alone take responsibility for the result. My opinion is that if you intend to travel faster than 80 mph, you need unrepaired, H speed rated tires, at least. Hope this helps.
 
Messages
2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
quote:
Originally posted by CapriRacer: A couple of thoughts: Over the speed limit is OVER the speed limit. If 10 is bad, 20 is worse! (but I understand what you mean!)
Depends on your view of the speed limit. Considering that 90% of the speedlimits in the US are set with an eye to generating revenue, rather than giving a safe limit, over the speed limit is only illegal, not unsafe. Something to consider; In the course of the Cannonball Run races, the total miles covered by all participants was over 300,000 miles at speeds well in excess of the speed limits. There was one single vehicle accident, which was the result of a driver falling asleep at the wheel. There were no other accidents. Speed kills? No, unsafe driving does, and that can happen at any speed.
 
Messages
342
Location
North Kingstown, RI
quote:
Originally posted by outrun: I assure you guys i making these speeds only under ideal conditions. A)totally dry road surface B)car at full maintenence (obscessive that is) C)1/2 to 3/4 mile space in front of me D) familiarity with all curves ahead E) no throttle on curves f) sprints on straights g)only during daylight and light to minimal traffic I am doing this not to be reckless but to prepare myself for my germany trip. Prepare I must for the great autobahn. Oh yeah, and 90-100 mph is not really speeding by that standard. 120mph was kind of scary...tunnel vision!
Over the years I've become remarkably adjusted to high speed (maybe this is a bad thing?). I can change CDs on the highway without swerving all over the place, even in my Caprice with pretty loose steering. Some people are such bad drivers that they'd go off the road at 40mph if they so much as took one hand off the wheel. I've also become adjusted to triple digits. On my favorite top speed run road with no cars around, late at night, I've been known to top out my Caprice. The road even curves then goes down hill. Not a problem, even at 130+ mph. Now picture me with my handheld XP240 scantool, with the dome light on, one hand on the wheel, doing that same 130, on a car with loose steering. I can get in a few glances down at the scantool and don't even veer out of my lane... No one's on the road so I don't have to apologise for that, just saying what one can do with a lot of experience/practice.
 
Messages
3,094
Location
Metro Detroit
Kevm14, I don't know what to say, except that it only takes one mistake at those speeds, then we'll be reading your obituary. Please don't forget that we're all human and humans screw up from time to time. This isn't something you should lose your life for. I also disagree with VaderSS. Accidents are not predictable. As good of a driver as you may be, there's little you can do to accomodate someone else's stupidity. If someone unexpectedly does something stupid in front of you when you're doing 90 - 100 mph, it could very easily be fatal. This can happen even on a seemingly empty road. It doesn't have to be a car, either. Hitting deer and other animals causes fatalities as well.
 
Messages
2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
90-100MPH on I-10 is about 10-20 MPH over the flow of traffic in this part of the country, whatever speedlimit may be in place. I've run those speeds numerous times and had numerous idiots do stupid things in front of me at those speeds. One thing to keep in mind though, is that I never do an overtake on a 4 lane road at more than 10 MPH over the passed vehicle's speed, because drivers can have bad reactions to someone coming by at very high closure rates. If you know your limits and the car's limits, and don't do something stupid yourself, there is no danger in it, beyond the usual danger of riding the highways. In fact, I'd say there is less danger of running 100 MPH than running 70, because I can tell you, at 100 MPH, I am one situation-aware puppy, where at 70, I'm one bored puppy... I can also tell you though, that diverting your attention, whether it's loading a cd, watching a scan tool, eating, or talking on the cell phone, does increase your danger, because at that point, you DO have less situation-awareness, and THAT can kill. There are many of caveat to high speed driving, just as there are many caveats to driving at legal speeds. A driver can be reckless at low or high speeds. The speed has nothing to do with it, unless it is reckless speed, which will be a different speed in different situations. 100 MPH may or may not be reckless on I-10, but 20MPH, which is the residential speedlimit in Houston, may be reckless if you are not sure a kid may step out from behind that car parked in the street...
 
Messages
429
Location
US
Watch out for broke down cars or debris as that causes many accidents , driving fast at night is like driving blind.
 
Messages
1,908
Location
Fort Worth, TX
What is the cost/benefit as always? Is ones life worth the $75 to $250 to replace a tire? In short, no matter how good the patch, the tread integrity is compromised, and, sooner or later, moisture will work its' way in and start some chemical reactions not conducive to the oem top speed rating. When will this occur? With what type of repair? For me, the tire comes off, the interior is patched and plugged, and the tire is checked for out-of-round and adverse balance. If okay, it is then a spare. Otherwise, I'm raising **** with the tire replacement warranty. So far, no problem in having one replaced with new. Life is short and serious accidents aren't. The consequences are lifelong (whether that is 15-minutes or thirty years).
 

outrun

Thread starter
Messages
1,715
Location
Texas & BWI Area
Advice taken, tire ride seems just as safe and balanced. Will take the tire and rim and keep as full size emergency spare. Will buy new rim and tire to replace. However I will say if the tire is repaired per Rubber Manafacturer Specs, and there tire itself is healthy you do not have much to worry about. Most people do not go over 80, well below even the rating of an S or T rated radial so I am not to afraid of the patch work.
 
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