Are Mobil 1's "sludge removal" claims true?

[Charlie1935]

Originally Posted By: Cubey
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but, my friend has an 05 GT Mustang. He is the original owner and has always used M1 5W20 along with an MC oil filter. He has always changed the oil AND filter at 7.5K miles. At about 2-3K miles you can see the oil starting to get dark.
Just recently he was given some PUP 5W20 along with an FU filter. He decided to use it, being it was FREE. Well, it's at about the 2-2.5K mile mark on the OCI and the oil still looks as gold as the day it went in. Opinions?

I've read that M1 tends to get dark vs other brands. Maybe because it's good at cleaning/preventing sludge?




I started using Mobil 1 in my 96 Dodge 318 at 70,000 miles shortly after I got it.
The oil got dark or black pretty quick.
At 150,000 miles it still gets very dark though maybe not as quick.
I figured that it's just the nature of the oil after 50,000 miles of using it and it still gets dark.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but, my friend has an 05 GT Mustang. He is the original owner and has always used M1 5W20 along with an MC oil filter. He has always changed the oil AND filter at 7.5K miles. At about 2-3K miles you can see the oil starting to get dark.
Just recently he was given some PUP 5W20 along with an FU filter. He decided to use it, being it was FREE. Well, it's at about the 2-2.5K mile mark on the OCI and the oil still looks as gold as the day it went in. Opinions?

Clean oil on the dipstick does not necessarily mean good oil. If the oil is dark there's a reason. Contamination - blowby, unburnt fuel, aftermarket oiled air filter etc.

A good oil will keep the engine surface and moving parts clean, trap any contamination in suspension, to be picked up by a quality high efficiency filter. The rest is drained out at the next oil change. So if the oil looks a little dirty you know it's doing its job.

If you want pretty oil on your dipstick throughout an oil change use cheap conventional with a cheap low efficiency oil filter. The contaminants are still there, but not visible on the dipstick. Because it's stuck to the engine surface building up.

So is it that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum doesn't clean and suspend as well? That's hard to say but what we do know is a Motorcraft filter is not as efficient as the Fram Ultra. The ultra is doing a better job removing the contaminants that are approximately 20um in size. Which has me wondering if he has an after-market K&M CAI or oiled filter.

 

[buster]

For the 0w40 they specifically state "exceptional cleaning ability for dirty engines." fwiw

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but, my friend has an 05 GT Mustang. He is the original owner and has always used M1 5W20 along with an MC oil filter. He has always changed the oil AND filter at 7.5K miles. At about 2-3K miles you can see the oil starting to get dark.
Just recently he was given some PUP 5W20 along with an FU filter. He decided to use it, being it was FREE. Well, it's at about the 2-2.5K mile mark on the OCI and the oil still looks as gold as the day it went in. Opinions?

Clean oil on the dipstick does not necessarily mean good oil. If the oil is dark there's a reason. Contamination - blowby, unburnt fuel, aftermarket oiled air filter etc.

A good oil will keep the engine surface and moving parts clean, trap any contamination in suspension, to be picked up by a quality high efficiency filter. The rest is drained out at the next oil change. So if the oil looks a little dirty you know it's doing its job.

If you want pretty oil on your dipstick throughout an oil change use cheap conventional with a cheap low efficiency oil filter. The contaminants are still there, but not visible on the dipstick. Because it's stuck to the engine surface building up.

So is it that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum doesn't clean and suspend as well? That's hard to say but what we do know is a Motorcraft filter is not as efficient as the Fram Ultra. The ultra is doing a better job removing the contaminants that are approximately 20um in size. Which has me wondering if he has an after-market K&M CAI or oiled filter.


For decades the M1 in my engines never get black, except for the two diesels in Ford cars I had in the 80s. Just a dark amber.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but, my friend has an 05 GT Mustang. He is the original owner and has always used M1 5W20 along with an MC oil filter. He has always changed the oil AND filter at 7.5K miles. At about 2-3K miles you can see the oil starting to get dark.
Just recently he was given some PUP 5W20 along with an FU filter. He decided to use it, being it was FREE. Well, it's at about the 2-2.5K mile mark on the OCI and the oil still looks as gold as the day it went in. Opinions?

Clean oil on the dipstick does not necessarily mean good oil. If the oil is dark there's a reason. Contamination - blowby, unburnt fuel, aftermarket oiled air filter etc.

A good oil will keep the engine surface and moving parts clean, trap any contamination in suspension, to be picked up by a quality high efficiency filter. The rest is drained out at the next oil change. So if the oil looks a little dirty you know it's doing its job.

If you want pretty oil on your dipstick throughout an oil change use cheap conventional with a cheap low efficiency oil filter. The contaminants are still there, but not visible on the dipstick. Because it's stuck to the engine surface building up.

So is it that Pennzoil Ultra Platinum doesn't clean and suspend as well? That's hard to say but what we do know is a Motorcraft filter is not as efficient as the Fram Ultra. The ultra is doing a better job removing the contaminants that are approximately 20um in size. Which has me wondering if he has an after-market K&M CAI or oiled filter.


Very true. Mobil 1 has gotten pretty dark over the course of 5-8k miles in my car, which means it's doing its job.

 

[ShotGun429]

I have found a Diesel Grade oil HDEO has alot of detergents that work very well in cleaning up a misused engine.

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Are you sure the one on the right was the OEM? The hole inlet looks a little big perhaps it's the picture. It looks pretty normal to me you probably could have just cleaned it out and put it back in. It's a wise decision to go with the dealer PCV. The others make a lot of noise and perhaps that is why the inlet is smaller on the OEM. Higher levels of vacuum at that hole or something.


100% sure. It has the Toyota OEM part number stamped in it. See the numbers "22040" in the photo? That's the second half of the part number. The first half is on the hex edge to the left.

This is the new replacement one I ordered from the local Toyota dealer by using their parts fiche. It's identical to the old one (Ignore the "not compatible with your 2003 Vibe! warning at the top. It just doesn't reference Vibes in the compatibility even though it's the same engine):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/compatibility-chart/B00KTG52A8?ie=UTF8&Make=Pontiac|52&Model=Vibe|612&Year=2003|2003&i=25&vehicleId=8

The Amazon cross reference shows:
Toyota Matrix 2003 Base Stamped #12204-22040

When using the Toyota dealer's parts fiche, searching for 12204-22040 pulls up:

VALVE SUB-ASSY, VENT
Make: Toyota | New Part#: 1220422041

If you look it up by way of 2003 Matrix Base, it's same part like the Amazon catalog shows.

It threaded in without abnormal resistance, besides the expected amount due to the green thread locker. And yes, I also put anti-seize on it.

 

[Cubey]

Oh and here is a photo I took of the new PCV valve I got from Toyota:



For quick reference, the old one (just ignore the wrong Fram one):

 

[LeakySeals]

Yeah thats it. How is the oil consumption? The 99 - 02 1zz has severe oil consumption problems which I'm sure you probably know about. Fixed in 03 with new pistons.

 

[MacWest]

mobil 1 always has turned dark in all my cars to many to list and it happens fast . Been using it for 25 years. I do find it noisy but never a mechanical issue from caddys to accords.

 

[Shannow]

There's a difference between keeping clean and cleaning up.

I (and many others) was burned badly when the oil industry switched from GrI to GrII without telling us turbine operators (Oz lost local refining capacity, so everything came in by boat, and GrI wasn't part of that).

GrI with it's mishmash of constituents had greater "polarity" and ability to keep varnish in suspension...GrII made less, but held MUCH less.

We had oils that were testing well in UOA, ROBOT, and RULER, but varnished valve gear, sludge in bearing housings, and seal oil strainers that would block up after a trip.

I take manufacturer's claims of "synthetics" "cleaning" with a large grain of salt.

GrIII and GrIV hols less "stuff" than even GrI...remember the claims that M1 had GrI, and the explaination that it was "additive carrier" back in the day ?

If syynthetics clean better, it's not due to basestocks directly, it's the additive package.

Yes, they will throw less garbage due to oxidation during an OCI, but aren't themselves cleaning agents.

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Yeah thats it. How is the oil consumption? The 99 - 02 1zz has severe oil consumption problems which I'm sure you probably know about. Fixed in 03 with new pistons.


Bought at it about 143k miles and got home with it at about 146k miles, with the timing tensioner o-ring leaking some (common). I checked it several times on the trip home and it never got low enough to be concerned, staying between the "add" and "full" dots on the dipstick.

Turns out they have a new dipstick with the level dots raised, meaning they want you to add more than they used to say. A TSB on it came out way back in 2008. See picture below I found on GenVibe showing the TSB.

EDIT: Here is a direct link also: http://www.toyotaparts.metro-toyota.com/...-SB-0134-08.pdf

It was about 2/3 quart low or there abouts after about 3k miles. I've since replaced the tensioner and o-ring and put oil resistant RTV around the o-ring to help prevent future leaks. It went down a tiny bit on the dip stick even after that after a couple thousand miles but not as much. It passed Washington State emissions testing fine.

The old PCV may have been bad however. After I had the Mobile 1 oil change, it started making a weird sound when cold-starting the engine that wasn't there when it had (most likely) all conventional. It wasn't a bad sound, but it was a sound that wasn't there before. It's impossible to describe. Today was the first time I started it up since I replaced the PCV valve yesterday and it didn't have that weird sound this time. It was a bit warmer out, but I doubt 45 degrees vs 55-60 degrees would make enough of a difference for oil thickness on a cold start.

I checked the oil level after it was changed and it was right on the dot, so I have something to go by when I check it again later. I have a quart left in the 5qt jug if it needs topping off any. After only 25-35 miles between the oil change and PCV valve replacement, maybe it hadn't dropped any. If it had any oil consumption issues after the o-ring replacement, maybe it was due to the PCV valve. It was 13 years old with almost 148k on it. It was long overdue for routine replacement.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
There's a difference between keeping clean and cleaning up.

I (and many others) was burned badly when the oil industry switched from GrI to GrII without telling us turbine operators (Oz lost local refining capacity, so everything came in by boat, and GrI wasn't part of that).

GrI with it's mishmash of constituents had greater "polarity" and ability to keep varnish in suspension...GrII made less, but held MUCH less.

We had oils that were testing well in UOA, ROBOT, and RULER, but varnished valve gear, sludge in bearing housings, and seal oil strainers that would block up after a trip.

I take manufacturer's claims of "synthetics" "cleaning" with a large grain of salt.

GrIII and GrIV hols less "stuff" than even GrI...remember the claims that M1 had GrI, and the explaination that it was "additive carrier" back in the day ?

If syynthetics clean better, it's not due to basestocks directly, it's the additive package.

Yes, they will throw less garbage due to oxidation during an OCI, but aren't themselves cleaning agents.


Exactly

 

[DemoFly]

Originally Posted By: Cubey
Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Motor oil will have absolutely no effect on crankcase blow-by.

That is a by-product of compression and combustion, not lubrication or detergency.


Who said anything about blow-by?

Crud on a PCV valve is from blow-by and oil evaporation.