Are Mobil 1's "sludge removal" claims true?

[Cubey]

Just as the subject asks, are Mobil 1's claims that using that oil removes sludge? I understand there's varying levels of sludge, but supposing only a minor amount?

The car in question is an 03 Pontiac Vibe (Toyota 1ZZ engine) at almost 148k. I just replaced the PCV valve with a new Toyota OEM one in case that was part of the problem. It may have been the original, based on the outdated part number stamped on it. For the the cost of $6.60 for a replacement w/ free pickup at the local Toyota dealer, it was a good idea to replace.

When I removed it, it had some gunk on it. Initially I was going to install a Fram one, but it had the wrong threads. I cleaned up the original and put it back in until I got the new OEM one today, which I installed this evening. When I pulled the original PCV back out, it looked cleaner inside the center, where I didn't clean before. Strange!

I stuck my finger in the PCV valve hole and fished out a bit of gunk from inside before installing the new one.

Using a flashlight shined in the oil filler hole, I can see some minor sludge/gunk buildup around the very edges of a few places (away from the moving parts like the camshaft, rocker, etc) but overall it looks decent for it's age and miles with an unknown OIC history. One such place would be around the baffle sort of place under the oil fillter cap (finger guard from the camshaft?) but then again it's a ledge where sludge is likely to collect and not regularly get oil splashed on the same way moving parts would. Same with the area where the PCV valve inserts into the valve cover. It's over out of the way from the valves.

(From now I'm just rambling, it has nothing to do with the original question...)

Shame on me for waiting 3 months after buying it it to get the engine oil changed, considering I had the trans serviced a few days after purchase in December. I wanted to it myself but found it wasn't going to happen, so I took it to a nearby garage (not an oil change shop) that I pretty well trust and had them do it. Only $14.xx if you bring your own oil+filter. They stay so busy you have to call days ahead to get an appointment, if that tells you anything about how busy they stay.

So anyway, I had them put in Mobil 1 High Mileage, along with a Mobil 1 filter. It's only been about 25-30 miles, so I can't really know if it's helping any or not yet. I plan to continue to use Mobil 1 HM oil. The new PCV valve can't hurt matters any.

 

[eljefino]

You get gunk in the PCV system with shortish trips. Maybe the 2nd time you inspected was after a long hot one.

 

[Cubey]

I should have pointed out it looked dryish, not muddy.

Here is a picture from when I pulled the valve and put it next to the (wrong) Fram one:

Maybe I'm using the wrong word for what that's called? I used a rag and wiped off what I could. I didn't try cleaning it internally with anything since I was going to replace anyway. It was "shake" tested and sounds about like the brand new one, so I don't think it was (totally) worn out or defective. I haven't started it up even since the new PCV valve was installed (no need to, didn't need to go anywhere) but it was having no idling or running problems on the old one.

 

[GR_CoB]

I got myself an '06 Pontiac Vibe. Filled with sludge, there is a post with picture here on bitog. For the last 10k miles just doing short oil changes based on how fast the oil get's dirty. Been using a bunch of different oils from my stash just to "get a feel" for all of them. One thing I noticed - anything made by Mobil (Mobil Super or Mobil 1 that is) gets dirtier oil color a lot faster than Pennzoil, Rotella, Chevron Delo, or Castrol. The way I see it - oil gets dirty as it cleans. And the faster it get's dirty - the faster/better it cleans. My latest fill is Mobil Super Synthetic 0w20. Engine feels and sounds smooth, and oil only has 270ish miles on it, but looks as dark as any Shell product after a 1000+ miles in the same engine.

 

[Rolla07]

Run some short intervals ie. 4-5k miles.

 

[GR_CoB]

BTW - idk if you are aware, but you can run a MUCH bigger oil filter than specified from factory on that engine. I used Fram XG3600, Motorcraft FL400S, Bosch Distance Plus 3422, Purolator PL20195, STP S3600XL. Fit perfectly and give more filtration, which is always a good thing.

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Run some short intervals ie. 4-5k miles.


That will be 6 months for me. I bought it across the country and drove it home, so I put 3k+ on it within about 10 days of buying it. But since then in 3 months time, it's gotten around 2k more put on it. (Give or take). They added up fast actually, I didn't have guessed I put 2k on it since I got back home with it.

On average it gets driven 2-3 days a week, short distances to the grocery store, etc. Now and then it gets driven harder but not too often. This month it's been sitting a lot more actually since I have been staying home.

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: RusskiBoSS
BTW - idk if you are aware, but you can run a MUCH bigger oil filter than specified from factory on that engine. I used Fram XG3600, Motorcraft FL400S, Bosch Distance Plus 3422, Purolator PL20195, STP S3600XL. Fit perfectly and give more filtration, which is always a good thing.


That's true. I'll try to keep that in mind, for the next oil change. I am/was considering just getting an OEM Toyota one since I live fairly close to the dealer and their parts prices are better than online elsewhere, in some cases. Such as the new PCV valve being cheaper than on Amazon.

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but, my friend has an 05 GT Mustang. He is the original owner and has always used M1 5W20 along with an MC oil filter. He has always changed the oil AND filter at 7.5K miles. At about 2-3K miles you can see the oil starting to get dark.
Just recently he was given some PUP 5W20 along with an FU filter. He decided to use it, being it was FREE. Well, it's at about the 2-2.5K mile mark on the OCI and the oil still looks as gold as the day it went in. Opinions?

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but, my friend has an 05 GT Mustang. He is the original owner and has always used M1 5W20 along with an MC oil filter. He has always changed the oil AND filter at 7.5K miles. At about 2-3K miles you can see the oil starting to get dark.
Just recently he was given some PUP 5W20 along with an FU filter. He decided to use it, being it was FREE. Well, it's at about the 2-2.5K mile mark on the OCI and the oil still looks as gold as the day it went in. Opinions?

I've read that M1 tends to get dark vs other brands. Maybe because it's good at cleaning/preventing sludge?

 

[WillsYoda]

PP and Maxlife tend to be honey colored after even a few thousand miles. I haven't used M1.

 

[Cubey]

I may switch to MaxLife due to the lower cost next time, if I am doing more frequent oil changes. Every 3 or 4 months might be ideal since I drive it so little. But then again, 6 months with M1 would probably cost the same as two 3-month OIC with MaxLife. I was hoping for annual OIC but hm, maybe it's not such a good idea being driven so little, and such short distances.

But now I'm getting off topic.

 

[DemoFly]

Motor oil will have absolutely no effect on crankcase blow-by.

That is a by-product of compression and combustion, not lubrication or detergency.

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: DemoFly
Motor oil will have absolutely no effect on crankcase blow-by.

That is a by-product of compression and combustion, not lubrication or detergency.


Who said anything about blow-by?

 

[Joe90_guy]

It's quite easy to demonstrate sludge removal on say the Sequence VG engine test. You take a very poor quality oil (maybe one of those that PQIA is so keen to ban). You run it until the oil 'turns' and starts laying down sludge (usually you can see this under the rocker cover). You drain the oil and replace it with something half decent, run the test again and see how much gunk has been removed. I don't know what Mobil have done to back-up their claim but it will probably be something along these lines.

I do have a few misgivings about this kind of testing and it's real world relevance. I can imagine that it's far easier to remove a relatively thin layer of newly formed sludge than it is to remove a thick layer of sludge that has had years to set and compact. Also just because someone somewhere has forked out the cash to demo 'sludge removal performance', it doesn't mean you wouldn't get exactly the same performance from a similar oil without the advertising claim. If you absolutely want to de-sludge an old engine, then just use a decently specified synthetic. Or better still, use a HDDO because it will contain a lot more dispersant.

My own personal view is if you have a sludged up engine, and it still goes, then leave it alone. A lot of sludge just parks itself in the quiesent parts of your engine, like the bottom of the sump (or oil pan) where it does no harm. Engines are like wives. If she gets a bit dirtier as she gets older, is it really a problem??

 

[Cubey]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
If you absolutely want to de-sludge an old engine, then just use a decently specified synthetic.


In other words, what I am doing.

It's not heavily sludged, or even moderately, so I'm not THAT worried about it. If it stays exactly as it is now, it could last another 150k+ without getting sludgier, sticking with full synth with proper OICs. (it's a 1ZZ Corolla engine, after all).

The Matrix/Vibe digital odometers stop at 299,999 due to lousy software on them coded so they stop there. People are getting past that in miles on their cars, driving around with their digital odometers never going past 299,999.... so another 150k on the engine is possible.

I was just curious if anyone has seen evidence of M1's claims.

 

[anndel]

I've used M1 and when it was out in the public and my vehicles reached 75K miles, M1 High Mileage. I change my oils every 5,000 miles. When I tore apart the head in my 1993 Toyota pickup to replace the timing chain, the engine was clean, some soot but clean for 156,000 miles. I've always use M1 HM in that truck and wife's 2005 Toyota Avalon with OCI per Toyota's specs at 5K miles. I heard some 4 cyl Toyota engines got oils very dirty quickly but nothing to worry and it's normal. As for the PCV valve, maybe the long drive blew out some carbon and maybe the PO didn't change oil as often and all that unburnt gas, soot, sludge built up onto the PCV.

Keep an eye on it every time you change the oil. Hopefully now you're using better oil, filter and changing it on time it cleared itself out.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
If you absolutely want to de-sludge an old engine, then just use a decently specified synthetic. Or better still, use a HDDO because it will contain a lot more dispersant.

The definitely makes sense, and I've been saying that for a long time here. While one oil "might" be a bit better than another for cleaning, if you take two oils with the same specifications and the same product tier, they're going to perform a lot more similarly than they will differently.

 

[LeakySeals]

Are you sure the one on the right was the OEM? The hole inlet looks a little big perhaps it's the picture. It looks pretty normal to me you probably could have just cleaned it out and put it back in. It's a wise decision to go with the dealer PCV. The others make a lot of noise and perhaps that is why the inlet is smaller on the OEM. Higher levels of vacuum at that hole or something.

I'm a believer in the cleaning power of Mobil 1 high mileage oil. I think it's more powerful than a regular oil. I've tried all kinds of snake oil and additives from 5 minute flushes to kreen over the years and imo nothing beats M1 hm. The cleanup is going to take approximately 10k miles. I would do 2 short 3k clean ups. Then expand to standard 7k-8k mile OCI

 

[tig1]

M1 oils are well known to keep engines very clean. With 175K on the Fusion, mine looks like new.