Are EVs the death of the performance ICE market?
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Dodge is experimenting with the two door Charger Scat Pack. 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. If it sells well it well it may be a breakthrough. As for European cars in the high digits it will be pretty hard to dish out the coin and then get zapped by some much cheaper EV.
Here is the two door Charger Scat Pack EV. It’s a conundrum with a retro style and a super modern power package. At least it’s more true to its roots unlike the Ford Mustang EV.
For 1/4 mile car sure - most likely. But there really hasn't been much of a market for years anyway, and now with Charger / Challenger gone there are none?
For actual sports car I would think weight would be your issue. Harder to hold grip slaloming around with 6000 lbs? This might be the place for a hybrid - best of both worlds like a F1 car?
FWIW I think most of these cars demand are controlled by Europe, where you can actually use the performance function on a normal road - for a long distance, so range will matter also.
For actual sports car I would think weight would be your issue. Harder to hold grip slaloming around with 6000 lbs? This might be the place for a hybrid - best of both worlds like a F1 car?
FWIW I think most of these cars demand are controlled by Europe, where you can actually use the performance function on a normal road - for a long distance, so range will matter also.
I think what EV's are making me realise is that I'm not a 'car guy', but an internal combustion guy and cars are just the every-day way I get to engage with them.
I can't get my head around to liking EV's no matter how capable they're getting.
I can't get my head around to liking EV's no matter how capable they're getting.
To clarify, the Charger is back as a two door and is being manufactured in Windsor, Ontario, Canada. The Challenger is indeed gone.
I had to look up BMW M3 used prices and I am impressed by how much value they retain now, and the older ones seem to be going up in value.
With a 2020 Model 3 performance averaging about $40k and a new price of $65k, it still is pretty cheap for a performance car, as there's no $200 oil changes, and $90 fill ups, so at for 4 years I would think the Tesla is still a bit cheaper to own.
The new model 3 performance is still $65k(with EV rebate) and an M3 comp is $103k, and the new Model 3 performance is a very very good drivers car, so it may hold its value much better than the 1st gen.
I imagine in 20 years a 2025 BMW M3 will be worth much more, than the 2025 Model 3 Perf, so if you spend the money to keep the maintenance up, the M3 may not cost much more at all?
I don't think it'll replace ICE. Half the fun of modifying cars is working on the engine; there's no (feasible) power train modifications yet for electric cars. Meanwhile somebody slaps some $300 wuhan whistles on a $1000 civic and takes it into the 10s. I guess it depends where you start from.
The fact is, in practical terms you can't really purchase this in EV form:
While a rip-snorting convertible 2 seater is not for everyone, it is a 'grail car'. Fun, hyper responsive, and an absolute joy to drive, the fact that it makes all the right sounds and regularly goes 400 mile high speed trips non stop is icing on the cake.
While a rip-snorting convertible 2 seater is not for everyone, it is a 'grail car'. Fun, hyper responsive, and an absolute joy to drive, the fact that it makes all the right sounds and regularly goes 400 mile high speed trips non stop is icing on the cake.
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The M3P is $55K. FSD is $8K option. Knock $7500 off is you qualify. Our's was like $71K out the door, with the governor's tax, licence, etc.
I'll likely have an EV sooner than later, if for no other reason than to support Elon. I've driven a Plaid, raced them on my 23 year old Sportbike, and absolutely left it in the dust. But it DOES take considerably more effort and skill to beat the Plaid on the old Sportbike, at least off the line, after that it's no contest. My sportscar is far more engaging to drive, but will get beaten off the line, but will also quickly pass it. If I decided to modify it further, it would beat it off the line too.
The Plaid IS impressive what it can do in a straight line, but it's also a bit soulless IMO.
I'm a gearhead, I like the visceral appeal and sound of my ICE bikes and cars. So I will always have them. After all, I get to get up close and personal with the most extreme ICE vehicles in existence. So it's only natural I like them.
Now not everyone is enamored with ICE vehicles, and they are certainly entitled to their wants and/or desires.
The Plaid IS impressive what it can do in a straight line, but it's also a bit soulless IMO.
I'm a gearhead, I like the visceral appeal and sound of my ICE bikes and cars. So I will always have them. After all, I get to get up close and personal with the most extreme ICE vehicles in existence. So it's only natural I like them.
Now not everyone is enamored with ICE vehicles, and they are certainly entitled to their wants and/or desires.
Sports and performance vehicles are mostly bragging rights whether mental or oral.
Unfortunately EV flipped the table and performance ICE owners lost them ..
Unfortunately EV flipped the table and performance ICE owners lost them ..
No.
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Isn't the question like asking, will all the automatic features of the new cameras, kill the market for cameras that need the owners to focus and make settings on their own? The new automatic modes are even more automatic than before, and a human can't even make decisions as fast as these new automatic modes. The new breed of cameras pretty much take pictures on their own. Not only that, but photographers can now do other things like shave, watch sports, and attend school plays, while the cameras incorporate AI and essentially do the job of the photographer. Kinda like shopping at Costco on co. time, whaddya think.
Exactly. This has been the case for a decade - suspension modes, anti slip, etc. At this point fancy cars are just a status symbol and being a gearhead is of no advantage - all you need is a fat wallet.
Canuck bucks are a bit smaller!
Any extra maintenance with the Performance? For DD'ing, other than tires, I assume it costs less to fuel and maintain than a Corolla?
The service on our 2018 Mid Range included warsher fluid, tire rotation and replacement of the 12v battery after 5 years. Tesla came out and installed it for about $110 all in, as I recall. The mobile tech also inspected the car for known issues; he said we got a good one. One large cost was replacing one of the Continental tires that had a nail near the sidewall, $410 at Wheel Works and I brought the wheel in! Ouch!Canuck bucks are a bit smaller!
Any extra maintenance with the Performance? For DD'ing, other than tires, I assume it costs less to fuel and maintain than a Corolla?
We have had the M3P since the end of June, I did just fill the warsher fluid. Took half a gallon! Tires won't be cheap.
I fuel the cars at home; I installed solar in 2017. Sometimes you get lucky. With the M3P range and how I use the car, Supercharging will be very rare. It was rare with the Mid Range; I used to do 10 minute top-offs from time to time when on the road. Plug in, grab a coffee or whatever, get back in and buzz on home.
Depending on your use case, these cars can be very easy to own.
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It's coming, probably the convertible too someday, but already hyundai is trying to add the internal combustion excitement into their Ioniq 5N EV. Doesn't seem too convincing yet, but the potential to have your awd EV roughly simulate a fwd Civic Si or rwd 1979 Countach, with sounds and throttle response, no low rpm torque, super stiff or soft dampening, steering boost, etc. is there, maybe just with paddle shifters.
For "mass market," yes---in my opinion. The market can't support Camaro + Mustang + Challenger.
And the high-end, no. Just as the Apple Watches haven't displaced the "inferior" Patek Phillipe, IWC, Rolex, etc.
And the high-end, no. Just as the Apple Watches haven't displaced the "inferior" Patek Phillipe, IWC, Rolex, etc.
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