API SM OTC Synthetics

Motorbike · Nov 26, 2004

I really have my doubts about API SM oils in general . I'll use Valvoline as but two examples .

The 10w-40 Durablend was ACEA A3 rated when it carried an SL designation .... not anylonger .

The Valvoline Synpower 30wts say they meet ACEA A1 ...... is that it for 4-5 bucks a quart ?

I've had other things to do lately than to check on these oils so I'll ask :

Does the Castrol Syntecs just meet A1 also ? How bout Q-State and Pennzoil 30wts ?

Do the SM Mobil Supersyn 30wts all still meet ACEA A5 ?

If these OTC synthetics with group III or whatever is in those bottles don't meet A5 my opinion is you ain't getting what your paying for .

haley10 · Nov 27, 2004

Castrol Syntec 5w30 and 10W-30 will meet SM, all the requirements of GF-4 and has the starburst. Both are also A5/B5.

Given A5/B5 they are most likely going to be better than before, but will the TBN retention be improved much??

It was already A5, but didn't retain TBN very well.

That's all I know.

Motorbike · Nov 28, 2004

The new Pennzoil data sheets have the 5w30 meeting A5 and the 10w-30 meeting ACEA A3

http://www.pzlqs.com/Tech/Pdsheet/DomesticMarketing/EngineOils/pdf/SyntheticMotorOil.PDF

I don't thing the previous formulas met those specs that I remember .

Based on that I'd most certainly try the Pennzoil 10w-30 before the Castrol Syntec 10w-30 and plain dino

before buying Valvolines A1 rated 30wt synthetic .

Blue99 · Nov 28, 2004

Something seems amuck on this Pennz Synthetic data sheet,as the HTHS listed for 10W-30 is 3.2 and the minimum for ASCEA A3 is 3.5 HTHS.

Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic meets A3, but it is 11.5 cSt vs. the 10.5 cSt listed for the Pennz 10W-30 synthetic.

Motorbike · Nov 28, 2004

I went and took a look after your post and see what your saying .

The vi index for the 5w30 shows to be .... 12 also

I wonder how much that proof reader gets paid ?

oilguy3 · Nov 28, 2004

I think we all need to give the oil co.'s a few months to get their ratings straight. There are still discrepencies between what's on the bottle and what's online. I have a feeling (just a feeling) that once SM starts appearing in the "dough nut" the label info will be updated and we will see what each oil is made of.

TallPaul · Nov 28, 2004

Good point oilguy3. The new Valvoline Durablend 10w40 SM does not say CF on the label like the old SL Durablend did, but the updated tech sheet says it is CF. I would expect the CF to appear on the labels in due time. However, as Motorbike noted, the ACEA A3 that was on the old SL is not on the new label or tech sheet--a bad sign!

Glad I stocked up with 30 quarts of SL/CF/A3 10w40 Durablend.

Drew99GT · Nov 28, 2004

Pennzoil High Mileage has remained SL, and only lists meeting the engine protection requirements of GF-3. If it stays SL, I think I'll be using that oil for good, as it's about the only oil you can buy OTC that isn't SM/GF-4. ALL the other HM oils have gone to GF-4.

TallPaul · Nov 28, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Drew99GT:
Pennzoil High Mileage has remained SL, and only lists meeting the engine protection requirements of GF-3. If it stays SL, I think I'll be using that oil for good, as it's about the only oil you can buy OTC that isn't SM/GF-4. ALL the other HM oils have gone to GF-4.

I'll have to keep that in mind when my 100 bottles of Valvoline SL stash runs out. But by then we will be in SN or SO.

What about Quaker State HM oil? The SL version did not even sport the API donut (which is fine with me).

Motorbike · Nov 28, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Drew99GT:

ALL the other HM oils have gone to GF-4.

The Citgo Ultra Life HM does not even have a donut on the bottle and has over 1400ppm zinc + big boron and stuff

Paul ,

Search for a UOA of the donutless Q-State HM . Less than desirable IMO

Motorbike · Nov 28, 2004

Citgo Supergard Synthetic 10w-30

15 bucks a 6 pack

Flash Pt 485 F
Pour Pt -33 F
HTHS Rate 3.5
Ash .80
TBN 8.5
Vis.@ 40C 63
Vis.@ 100C 10.4

Look at the HT/HS and VI @ 100c

69 Riv GS · Nov 28, 2004

I agree with you Motorbike; both TallPaul and I started similar threads(seems you were busy with "life" for a while

) when GF-4 & SM(printed on label, but not in dounut at that point) hit the selves.
Syntec Blend is another example; GF-3/SL versions carried the following ACEA approvals:
5w30 --A1
10w-30 -A5
10w-40 -A3
Now,,, no ACEA ratings.

Lets keep in mind GF-4 was created to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy,,, that's all.

TallPaul · Nov 28, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Motorbike:
The Citgo Ultra Life HM does not even have a donut on the bottle and has over 1400ppm zinc + big boron and stuff

Ah yes the donutless Ultralife. Killer stuff. Lots'a goodies for the add pack folks. Definitely worthy of consideration, but you also have me thinking Conoco/Phillips. Not that I am ready to leave Valvoline quite yet. And yeah, fuggadabout the QS.

69 Riv GS · Nov 28, 2004

quote:

Pennzoil High Mileage has remained SL, and only lists meeting the engine protection requirements of GF-3. If it stays SL, I think I'll be using that oil for good, as it's about the only oil you can buy OTC that isn't SM/GF-4. ALL the other HM oils have gone to GF-4.

Mobil DC+ HM is still SL/GF-3(at least here) and is a better product IMHO. The Pennzoil HM has a good additive pack, but it contains a fair amount of group I which leads to its rather poor low temp performance.

Oh yeah, I spotted the PDS on the Citgo syn too,
it's gotta be the best bang for the buck around; maybe even the best bang period.

[ November 29, 2004, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: 69 Riv GS ]

Motorbike · Nov 28, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by 69 Riv GS:

Lets keep in mind GF-4 was created to reduce emissions and improve fuel economy,,, that's all.

And thats a scary thought

I don't have to worry though . I use only 4 oils , soon to be 2 after some Saab 0w-30 oil is used up and each one " all 30wts " has a minimum 700ppm more zinc/phos than the new GF-4 OTC 20&30ts .

My engines love me and send me cookies n flowers and stuff

69 Riv GS · Nov 29, 2004

quote:

originally posted by Motorbike:
I use only 4 oils , soon to be 2

Let me guess; Synergyn LTS 3w-30 and LTS 5w30.

TallPaul · Nov 29, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Blue99:
Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic meets A3, but it is 11.5 cSt ...

Very interesting. Never noticed that before. Wonder if that is new for the SM? Regular Maxlife is still around 10.5 cSt for 30 wt. Why do you suppose they made the synthetic Maxlife about 1 cSt thicker than the dino Maxlife? Would think it should be the other way around, aye?

Blue99 · Dec 3, 2004

quote:

The 10w-40 Durablend was ACEA A3 rated when it carried an SL designation .... not any longer .

Motorbike, going back to this issue of Durablend 10W-40 no longer listing A3, here is a thought.

Both ACEA A3 & A5 have a .8 viscosity window for oil thickening/thinning after the 72 hour engine test.

Even though the GF-4 Durablend 10W-40 meets the A3 requirement of 3.5 HTHS, is it possible that after the 72 hour test,the oil is either getting thicker or thinner & missing the .8 viscosity window?

ACEA Sequences 2.1 Engine Test

Motorbike · Dec 4, 2004

Blue99

I see what you saying but it's all a guess not being inside the company .

I'll guess that since Zinc acts as an anti-oxident and it is lower in this formula there's where it misses the ACEA A3 boat .

API SM OTC Synthetics

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