Originally Posted By: Mykl
I completely disagree. Not only is the car fun, but it's under $30k (Cooper S, Focus ST, and MS3 are all within a couple thousand of each other) and it's certainly fast enough unless you're splitting hairs. It handles great, the engine is a gem, the gearbox is wonderful to use, and it doesn't beat you up on long drives.
It's the perfect hot hatch.
Maybe you prefer a rougher around the edges car and it's not perfect in your eyes... that's cool, but it's still a hot hatch even though the torque steer is under control.
...and as far as "keeping up with the times" goes, you don't reclassify older cars because they don't hold up to standards of today. A 1964 GTO is still a muscle car even though it's absolutely gutless relative to most performance vehicles of today.
That is fine to disagree. Just do not insult the guy who disagrees with you. My criticisms are not personal towards the GTI, I am just calling out that the MkVI is not as competitive... on paper and in my driving experiences. I was impressed by the MkV but with the MkVI... I was left wondering if VW just just serving leftovers. Hopefully (and it looks really promising) the MkVII will be different.
The GTI is fun, just not the most fun... and definitely not in the price point. I would pick the Fiesta ST, pocket the 4+ grand and have a hatch-full of good local beer in the car as I torque-steer it into a tree. The Fiesta is just more fun and cheaper. It is the better hot hatch despite probably not being the better "overall" car. That is because 'refinement' is not a metric for defining a hot hatch. The fiesta is the hot-hatch essence... the GTI is the hatch-GT car.
For keeping up with the times, it is about comparing "peers" not just the class. I am not comparing a Mk1 GTI against the new Focus, it is 1964 vs 1964, 1985 vs 1985, and 2012 vs 2012. The 2014 GTI would be competitive against 2007 hot hatches but the 2010-14 hatches are now hotter hatches than the GTI. For example, the Mazdaspeed comparison.Yes the GTI is slower... but that Mazda does handle well and if you respect the power (which a lot of folks do not) it is a fabulous bonkers car... and cheaper. I look at that segment as comparing a MX-5 to an S2000... but with the MX-5 costing the same/more. The GTI is "easier" because you are not having to deal with the meth-addled power. Both the MkIV and the MkVI have the problem of being a bit dated in a competitive segment. I have high hopes for the MkVII GTI because they added 50+lbs of torque which was desperately needed. They also lost 100lbs from the model which was the bigger improvement.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
The GTI (which invented the "hot hatch") is not a hot hatch... horse excrement.
...
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/...te-specs-page-4
I'll save you the work, GTI won by 226>202 out of a possible 240 points.
Just because one claims to "invent" the hot hatch does not mean that they remain the "king" of hot hatches. The Current MkVI is not as hot as other rival cars despite its price-point. Its old and worn out. Good when it was the MkV but in the 2010-2014 the GTI is weaker.
As for the "winning" of the GTI MkVII... yeah, a not-yet-produce car wins.
No.
Comparing a 2013 to a non-production 2015 is a
FAIL. Compare a 2015 ST to the 2015 GTI.
$31,000 is a hot hatch...
FAIL.
Listen, I am excited about the MkVII GTI but those C&D comparisons were rubbish. You can't compare a 2013 in-production vehicle against the 2015 pre-production vehicle.
