Ive been thinking about a new car in the next few months. I am interested in a "hot hatchback". I have been reading favorable reviews of the VW GTI, however am uncertain on the reliability of it. Im interested in a manual transmission only. Anyone with real world experience?
Anyone with a VW GTI?
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You want a Hatchback from Volkswagen, as a GTI?
You have two options,
The Polo GTI or the Golf GTI - Americans usually like larger cars so I'll assume you'd prefer the Golf..
Well screwed together, fast, fun, comfortable, easy to work on, sure all cars can have things go wrong with them from time to time but VW no more than any other manufacturer (less often than many)
The only things I'd advise/urge/reccomend/beg you to do are;
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
If you don't already have one, buy a cheap OBD scanner of the E Bay
Remember that the knock sensor and boost actuators are very sensitive to octane - use the best fuel you can get.
In the UK fuel comes at 95, 97 or 99 octane, I think you guys get 87&91?
You have two options,
The Polo GTI or the Golf GTI - Americans usually like larger cars so I'll assume you'd prefer the Golf..
Well screwed together, fast, fun, comfortable, easy to work on, sure all cars can have things go wrong with them from time to time but VW no more than any other manufacturer (less often than many)
The only things I'd advise/urge/reccomend/beg you to do are;
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
If you don't already have one, buy a cheap OBD scanner of the E Bay
Remember that the knock sensor and boost actuators are very sensitive to octane - use the best fuel you can get.
In the UK fuel comes at 95, 97 or 99 octane, I think you guys get 87&91?
No Polo GTI (In fact no Polo of any sort) in US.
In a few months, MK7 should be available or very soon available.
In a few months, MK7 should be available or very soon available.
In case you missed this recent discussion:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...anu#Post3294086
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...anu#Post3294086
Quattro- Thanks, totally missed it, guess I didnt look hard enough! Thanks
I have a 2009 MKV, bought a year ago with 41K CPO. Now has 55K. 4 door, manual 6 speed. Made in Germany. No major issues, except the Sat Radio receiver module did not work. Bought a used one on Ebay.
The GTI is fun to drive. There are faster and better performing cars out there, Focus ST, Mazdaspeed 3, Civic Si, which I test drove before getting the GTI. The GTI just felt better to me, especially the quality of materials in the cabin and the controlled ride.
Mine seems to be picky about fuel, and runs best on Mobil or Chevron premium. Also, use motor oil that has the VW 502.00 spec oil. I use Mobil 1 0W-40 and a MANN filter.
Dave
The GTI is fun to drive. There are faster and better performing cars out there, Focus ST, Mazdaspeed 3, Civic Si, which I test drove before getting the GTI. The GTI just felt better to me, especially the quality of materials in the cabin and the controlled ride.
Mine seems to be picky about fuel, and runs best on Mobil or Chevron premium. Also, use motor oil that has the VW 502.00 spec oil. I use Mobil 1 0W-40 and a MANN filter.
Dave
Originally Posted By: Olas
You want a Hatchback from Volkswagen, as a GTI?
You have two options,
The Polo GTI or the Golf GTI - Americans usually like larger cars so I'll assume you'd prefer the Golf..
Well screwed together, fast, fun, comfortable, easy to work on, sure all cars can have things go wrong with them from time to time but VW no more than any other manufacturer (less often than many)
The only things I'd advise/urge/reccomend/beg you to do are;
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
If you don't already have one, buy a cheap OBD scanner of the E Bay
Remember that the knock sensor and boost actuators are very sensitive to octane - use the best fuel you can get.
In the UK fuel comes at 95, 97 or 99 octane, I think you guys get 87&91?
No Polo on this side of the pond; you guys get all the cool stuff.
As for octane, we use different standards. If Wikipedia is to be believed, your low end gas is 95 RON while ours is 87 AKI. AKI is 4 to 5 points below RON, so our 93 octane is about 97ish. So we have lower octane gas, but it's not quite as drastic as first glance indicates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
Research Octane Number (RON)
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.
Motor Octane Number (MON)
There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load, as it is determined at 900 rpm engine speed, instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON, however there is no direct link between RON and MON. Normally, fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.[citation needed]
Anti-Knock Index (AKI)
In most countries, including Australia, New Zealand and all of those in Europe,[citation needed] the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Pump Octane Number (PON).
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. This difference is known as the fuel's sensitivity,[4] and is not typically published for those countries that use the Anti-Knock Index labelling system.
You want a Hatchback from Volkswagen, as a GTI?
You have two options,
The Polo GTI or the Golf GTI - Americans usually like larger cars so I'll assume you'd prefer the Golf..
Well screwed together, fast, fun, comfortable, easy to work on, sure all cars can have things go wrong with them from time to time but VW no more than any other manufacturer (less often than many)
The only things I'd advise/urge/reccomend/beg you to do are;
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
If you don't already have one, buy a cheap OBD scanner of the E Bay
Remember that the knock sensor and boost actuators are very sensitive to octane - use the best fuel you can get.
In the UK fuel comes at 95, 97 or 99 octane, I think you guys get 87&91?
No Polo on this side of the pond; you guys get all the cool stuff.
As for octane, we use different standards. If Wikipedia is to be believed, your low end gas is 95 RON while ours is 87 AKI. AKI is 4 to 5 points below RON, so our 93 octane is about 97ish. So we have lower octane gas, but it's not quite as drastic as first glance indicates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
Research Octane Number (RON)
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.
Motor Octane Number (MON)
There is another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), which is a better measure of how the fuel behaves when under load, as it is determined at 900 rpm engine speed, instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON, however there is no direct link between RON and MON. Normally, fuel specifications require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.[citation needed]
Anti-Knock Index (AKI)
In most countries, including Australia, New Zealand and all of those in Europe,[citation needed] the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI, and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Pump Octane Number (PON).
Difference between RON and AKI
Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, the octane rating shown in Canada and the United States is 4 to 5 points lower than the rating shown elsewhere in the world for the same fuel. This difference is known as the fuel's sensitivity,[4] and is not typically published for those countries that use the Anti-Knock Index labelling system.
Quote:
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
And put electrical tape on the resultant CEL? I will be shocked if the ECM is not able to detect this condition and raise the flag.
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
And put electrical tape on the resultant CEL? I will be shocked if the ECM is not able to detect this condition and raise the flag.
My 2010 has 77k miles and counting. One electrical issue covered under warranty that happened at about 5k miles. Otherwise just regular maintenance, gas, and go.
The car still has a solid, tight feel; the engine is still as efficient and powerful as it has ever been; and the interior has worn like iron with no squeaks or rattles. The tartan driver seat might be a touch faded, but otherwise I could have it looking as good as it did when I bought it new with about 30 minutes of effort.
As has been stated the sore spots include...
- carbon buildup on valves from DI
- intake manifold failures
- fuel injector failures
- water pump failures
For carbon build-up, the way to fight it is to get the heat up for about 20-30 minutes. Think "Italian tune-up." I can link you to the technical paper, but the gist of it is that in order to break up the carbon you need to get the valves very hot. Doing a track day a year or so should mean that you never have to take the car in for a cleaning.
The intake manifold and fuel injectors have had their warranty extended to 10 years or 120k miles
Water pump.... some people have issues, others don't. When they do go they tend to give you plenty of warning via a very annoying noise (I haven't heard it, I can't really describe it). They generally don't fail dramatically and cause a situation that could ruin the engine. When you're in warranty, this is of course not an issue. When you're out of warranty, if you're even somewhat mechanically inclined, it's extremely easy to change because it's not buried behind a timing belt/chain. It's under the intake manifold on the front of the engine on the transmission side.
You can buy faster cars for the same amount of money. But for someone who tends to lean towards being an aggressive driver on the street, I find that the GTI has a very nice balance of handling prowess, power, and comfort.
The car still has a solid, tight feel; the engine is still as efficient and powerful as it has ever been; and the interior has worn like iron with no squeaks or rattles. The tartan driver seat might be a touch faded, but otherwise I could have it looking as good as it did when I bought it new with about 30 minutes of effort.
As has been stated the sore spots include...
- carbon buildup on valves from DI
- intake manifold failures
- fuel injector failures
- water pump failures
For carbon build-up, the way to fight it is to get the heat up for about 20-30 minutes. Think "Italian tune-up." I can link you to the technical paper, but the gist of it is that in order to break up the carbon you need to get the valves very hot. Doing a track day a year or so should mean that you never have to take the car in for a cleaning.
The intake manifold and fuel injectors have had their warranty extended to 10 years or 120k miles
Water pump.... some people have issues, others don't. When they do go they tend to give you plenty of warning via a very annoying noise (I haven't heard it, I can't really describe it). They generally don't fail dramatically and cause a situation that could ruin the engine. When you're in warranty, this is of course not an issue. When you're out of warranty, if you're even somewhat mechanically inclined, it's extremely easy to change because it's not buried behind a timing belt/chain. It's under the intake manifold on the front of the engine on the transmission side.
You can buy faster cars for the same amount of money. But for someone who tends to lean towards being an aggressive driver on the street, I find that the GTI has a very nice balance of handling prowess, power, and comfort.
^ and as has been pointed out by others, make sure you test drive anything and everything even remotely like it. The cars I personally would go in search of are...
- Volkswagen GLI
- Ford Focus ST
- Ford Fiesta ST
- Honda Civic Si
- Fiat Abarth 500
- Mini Cooper S
You never know which one will speak to you. Also, at least go for a test drive in a DSG equipped GTI, it's quite good and you might actually like it. I still find it to be theraputic to row my own, but the DSG is pretty slick.
- Volkswagen GLI
- Ford Focus ST
- Ford Fiesta ST
- Honda Civic Si
- Fiat Abarth 500
- Mini Cooper S
You never know which one will speak to you. Also, at least go for a test drive in a DSG equipped GTI, it's quite good and you might actually like it. I still find it to be theraputic to row my own, but the DSG is pretty slick.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
No Polo GTI (In fact no Polo of any sort) in US.
Correct, and the only Polo I would ever even consider is the one Sebastien Ogier pilots in the WRC.
No Polo GTI (In fact no Polo of any sort) in US.
Correct, and the only Polo I would ever even consider is the one Sebastien Ogier pilots in the WRC.
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
No Polo GTI (In fact no Polo of any sort) in US.
Correct, and the only Polo I would ever even consider is the one Sebastien Ogier pilots in the WRC.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
No Polo GTI (In fact no Polo of any sort) in US.
Correct, and the only Polo I would ever even consider is the one Sebastien Ogier pilots in the WRC.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
No Polo GTI (In fact no Polo of any sort) in US.
Correct, and the only Polo I would ever even consider is the one Sebastien Ogier pilots in the WRC.
Yes, and as much a fan of (and rooter for) the Ford World Rally Team/Malcolm Wilson Motorsport as I am, I must admit that VeeDub Motorsport has the best looking (as well as performing, obviously) of the current crop of WRC cars (LOVE those; vents/box flares/etc.!).
Originally Posted By: dailydriver
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
No Polo GTI (In fact no Polo of any sort) in US.
Correct, and the only Polo I would ever even consider is the one Sebastien Ogier pilots in the WRC.
Yes, and as much a fan of (and rooter for) the Ford World Rally Team/Malcolm Wilson Motorsport as I am, I must admit that VeeDub Motorsport has the best looking (as well as performing, obviously) of the current crop of WRC cars (LOVE those; vents/box flares/etc.!).
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
And put electrical tape on the resultant CEL? I will be shocked if the ECM is not able to detect this condition and raise the flag.
If you don't plug up the other end there's a huge vac. leak, and the corresponding DTC to go with it.
If you VTA, and plug/bung the other end there's no vac. leak and no DTC. (applies to cars in Europe, I know from first hand experience because I did this to my brothers car, and theres no codes.)
NA ECU's may differ? I dunno, try it and see..
Quote:
Vent the PCV to atmosphere - direct injection just LOVES to carbon the inlet valves (VTA solves the problem)
And put electrical tape on the resultant CEL? I will be shocked if the ECM is not able to detect this condition and raise the flag.
If you don't plug up the other end there's a huge vac. leak, and the corresponding DTC to go with it.
If you VTA, and plug/bung the other end there's no vac. leak and no DTC. (applies to cars in Europe, I know from first hand experience because I did this to my brothers car, and theres no codes.)
NA ECU's may differ? I dunno, try it and see..
Originally Posted By: FirstNissan
Ive been thinking about a new car in the next few months. I am interested in a "hot hatchback". I have been reading favorable reviews of the VW GTI, however am uncertain on the reliability of it. Im interested in a manual transmission only. Anyone with real world experience?
I too was interested in manual only, until I drove the DSG. I only have 7000 trouble free miles so far, so we'll see.
Ive been thinking about a new car in the next few months. I am interested in a "hot hatchback". I have been reading favorable reviews of the VW GTI, however am uncertain on the reliability of it. Im interested in a manual transmission only. Anyone with real world experience?
I too was interested in manual only, until I drove the DSG. I only have 7000 trouble free miles so far, so we'll see.
Originally Posted By: JetStar
Originally Posted By: FirstNissan
Ive been thinking about a new car in the next few months. I am interested in a "hot hatchback". I have been reading favorable reviews of the VW GTI, however am uncertain on the reliability of it. Im interested in a manual transmission only. Anyone with real world experience?
I too was interested in manual only, until I drove the DSG. I only have 7000 trouble free miles so far, so we'll see.
Make sure they applied the recall fix to your DSG. It is simply just replacing the synthetic fluid with conventional, but it is an important "fix."
Originally Posted By: FirstNissan
Ive been thinking about a new car in the next few months. I am interested in a "hot hatchback". I have been reading favorable reviews of the VW GTI, however am uncertain on the reliability of it. Im interested in a manual transmission only. Anyone with real world experience?
I too was interested in manual only, until I drove the DSG. I only have 7000 trouble free miles so far, so we'll see.
Make sure they applied the recall fix to your DSG. It is simply just replacing the synthetic fluid with conventional, but it is an important "fix."
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Make sure they applied the recall fix to your DSG. It is simply just replacing the synthetic fluid with conventional, but it is an important "fix."
AFAIK, that recall was pertaining to a different DSG transmission (DQ200) and not the one offered on a GTI here in the US.
Make sure they applied the recall fix to your DSG. It is simply just replacing the synthetic fluid with conventional, but it is an important "fix."
AFAIK, that recall was pertaining to a different DSG transmission (DQ200) and not the one offered on a GTI here in the US.
FWIW...
Right now, my favorite Hot Hatch is the Fiesta ST. It is simply the most "fun". The GTI should be quicker, but the GTI will not hold its own against the Focus ST or Mazdaspeed as both have 50 more bhp and 65lb or torgue than the GTI. In Kansas, I would expect that the 1/4 mile would be more important right... Jeffersonian Grid Pattern is terrible for drivers? The GTI is a bit more refined but calling it a "hot hatch" is giving more to its legacy rather than its current ability. It is a warm hatch... kinda like how they "refined" the Datsun/Nissan Z and turned it into the ZX... fatter, more comfortable... and different. I say you can feel the 3100lbs... (more than my Legacy Wagon) and the 200bhp does not cut it. The GTI is a great car, perhaps the best overall package, but not as "hot" anymore. The GTI would be my pick for doing a roadtrip of the hatches.
For the irrational driver-buyer, I would go with the Fiesta ST. If I was using my own money, I would go with the WRX (no hatch, shame on subaru). If I was looking for the best hatch, then I would be looking for the 7th Gen Civic SI (2002-2005) with low miles. I run into a guy with one fairly frequently and I am always a bit jealous. That was a good "hot hatch".
Right now, my favorite Hot Hatch is the Fiesta ST. It is simply the most "fun". The GTI should be quicker, but the GTI will not hold its own against the Focus ST or Mazdaspeed as both have 50 more bhp and 65lb or torgue than the GTI. In Kansas, I would expect that the 1/4 mile would be more important right... Jeffersonian Grid Pattern is terrible for drivers? The GTI is a bit more refined but calling it a "hot hatch" is giving more to its legacy rather than its current ability. It is a warm hatch... kinda like how they "refined" the Datsun/Nissan Z and turned it into the ZX... fatter, more comfortable... and different. I say you can feel the 3100lbs... (more than my Legacy Wagon) and the 200bhp does not cut it. The GTI is a great car, perhaps the best overall package, but not as "hot" anymore. The GTI would be my pick for doing a roadtrip of the hatches.
For the irrational driver-buyer, I would go with the Fiesta ST. If I was using my own money, I would go with the WRX (no hatch, shame on subaru). If I was looking for the best hatch, then I would be looking for the 7th Gen Civic SI (2002-2005) with low miles. I run into a guy with one fairly frequently and I am always a bit jealous. That was a good "hot hatch".
Saying a GTI isn't a hot hatch is like saying that your MR2 isn't a sports car because it doesn't offer the same focused experience as an S2000.
You can disect it any way you like, but the GTI is an extremely competent performance hatchback.... which is what I thought the term "hot hatch" was supposed to imply.
You can disect it any way you like, but the GTI is an extremely competent performance hatchback.... which is what I thought the term "hot hatch" was supposed to imply.
Originally Posted By: Mykl
Saying a GTI isn't a hot hatch is like saying that your MR2 isn't a sports car because it doesn't offer the same focused experience as an S2000.
You can disect it any way you like, but the GTI is an extremely competent performance hatchback.... which is what I thought the term "hot hatch" was supposed to imply.
Actually, if you asked if the Z32 300ZX was a sportscar, I would say "ehhhh" more of a GT car compared to the earlier 240Z. From the 70s to the early 90s, they "refined it"... it lost that edge. More weight, more comfort, less performance oriented. The Mk3 MR2 was actually more of a throwback to the Mk1. Hard to tell anyone that something that has 1.5cuft of storage space is less of a "sportscar". Then again, a sportscar is based less on the engine and more on the handling dynamics. You can have an underpowered sportscar... that is fine for the breed... but an underpowered hothatch? Not sure that works. Sure, the S2000 offered more performance, but it also was 33% ($8-9K not including options) more expensive. I am dissecting the GTI based on its lineage and current competitors (not cars 33% more expensive).
GTI: $25.1K
Honda Si: $22.7K
Fiesta ST: $21.4K
Focus ST: $24.1K
Mazdaspeed: $24.2K
WRX: $26K
No way you cut it, but the GTI is not as "hot" as its pricepoint and is not as cheap as the Honda (but the Honda is no longer a hatch, so take that as you will). The Fiesta ST offer the same grunt, is ligher, and cheaper. The Fiesta is more of what made the GTI than the current GTI.
The modern GTI is not "hot" anymore. I would say the same goes for the Honda Si. Both have fallen away from their roots and are more akin to upper-trim level options than performance options. Th MkIV GTI was a fat mess, the Mk5 GTI brought some of the magic back but I thnk VW has lost it again. The seriously need to get the weight down by 300lbs if they are only going to offer 200bhp.
Don't get me wrong, the modern GTI is a very good car...(a very complete package) but there are a lot hotter cars at the pricepoint, similar "hot" cars are 3K cheaper, and there is less of that early Mk1/Mk2 magic. Heck, the Mk5 felt better.
Saying a GTI isn't a hot hatch is like saying that your MR2 isn't a sports car because it doesn't offer the same focused experience as an S2000.
You can disect it any way you like, but the GTI is an extremely competent performance hatchback.... which is what I thought the term "hot hatch" was supposed to imply.
Actually, if you asked if the Z32 300ZX was a sportscar, I would say "ehhhh" more of a GT car compared to the earlier 240Z. From the 70s to the early 90s, they "refined it"... it lost that edge. More weight, more comfort, less performance oriented. The Mk3 MR2 was actually more of a throwback to the Mk1. Hard to tell anyone that something that has 1.5cuft of storage space is less of a "sportscar". Then again, a sportscar is based less on the engine and more on the handling dynamics. You can have an underpowered sportscar... that is fine for the breed... but an underpowered hothatch? Not sure that works. Sure, the S2000 offered more performance, but it also was 33% ($8-9K not including options) more expensive. I am dissecting the GTI based on its lineage and current competitors (not cars 33% more expensive).
GTI: $25.1K
Honda Si: $22.7K
Fiesta ST: $21.4K
Focus ST: $24.1K
Mazdaspeed: $24.2K
WRX: $26K
No way you cut it, but the GTI is not as "hot" as its pricepoint and is not as cheap as the Honda (but the Honda is no longer a hatch, so take that as you will). The Fiesta ST offer the same grunt, is ligher, and cheaper. The Fiesta is more of what made the GTI than the current GTI.
The modern GTI is not "hot" anymore. I would say the same goes for the Honda Si. Both have fallen away from their roots and are more akin to upper-trim level options than performance options. Th MkIV GTI was a fat mess, the Mk5 GTI brought some of the magic back but I thnk VW has lost it again. The seriously need to get the weight down by 300lbs if they are only going to offer 200bhp.
Don't get me wrong, the modern GTI is a very good car...(a very complete package) but there are a lot hotter cars at the pricepoint, similar "hot" cars are 3K cheaper, and there is less of that early Mk1/Mk2 magic. Heck, the Mk5 felt better.
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