Anyone use out door surge suppressor for HVAC unit?

[alarmguy]

I added one of these to the panel in March. Our furnace control board died and was replaced under warranty. The tech mentioned that it would be a good idea to have one as, in his words, " all those EV chargers in people's houses are causing spikes". I doubt that is the problem, but added one for other possible spikes.

View attachment 226904
Now thinking maybe another one on the AC unit would be helpful as well.

An external one would be by first choice such as you installed I just didn’t want to get into a project of cutting the drywall so I went with the internal

Ironically, for me, adding the second one at the HVAC unit is very cost-effective for $65 and a few minutes to wire into the outside HCAC disconnect. What is more is that the AC breaker is right next to the main and the wiring from the circuit breaker panel to the outside AC unit is maybe 3 feet long because the unit sits right on the outside wall of the breaker panel if that makes any sense I was thinking maybe it might help quell an overwhelming surge, but whatever, I think too much

Amazon says they will both be here on Sunday. Not sure if I’ll be able to get it in that day.

 

[Kantaro]

I added one of these to the panel in March. Our furnace control board died and was replaced under warranty. The tech mentioned that it would be a good idea to have one as, in his words, " all those EV chargers in people's houses are causing spikes". I doubt that is the problem, but added one for other possible spikes.

View attachment 226904
Now thinking maybe another one on the AC unit would be helpful as well.

A whole home SPD is never a bad idea, especially when every little thing seems to have a circuit board now. Consider it cheap insurance

 

[alarmguy]

Just came in the mail this afternoon and I installed it. Easy stuff but the darn knock out on the box knocked out the size I wanted and one size larger so I have to pick up two conduit reducing washers in Home Depot I guess, so it fits perfectly secure. Annoying I just could not prevent the larger knockout to come out without the smaller and I was careful.
Anyway, all good, its connected, then will have to do it all again when I get the washers.
Its a weighty robust feeling thing, surprised me, looks like two ceramic boxes inside the housing.

I also bought a basic whole panel surge (below) that takes up two slots in the main breaker panel. Still have to install that and turn off power move one side of breakers around

 

[Nukeman7]

Just came in the mail this afternoon and I installed it. Easy stuff but the darn knock out on the box knocked out the size I wanted and one size larger so I have to pick up two conduit reducing washers in Home Depot I guess, so it fits perfectly secure. Annoying I just could not prevent the larger knockout to come out without the smaller and I was careful.
Anyway, all good, its connected, then will have to do it all again when I get the washers.
Its a weighty robust feeling thing, surprised me, looks like two ceramic boxes inside the housing.

View attachment 227352

Can you post a close up photo of how the wires connect to the terminals inside the A/C disconnect box? I believe the AG3000 surge suppressor unit has two black wires and one white wire. I have one on the way and want to ensure it is connected correctly when it arrives tomorrow.

 

[alarmguy]

Can you post a close up photo of how the wires connect to the terminals inside the A/C disconnect box? I believe the AG3000 surge suppressor unit has two black wires and one white wire. I have one on the way and want to ensure it is connected correctly when it arrives tomorrow.

Yes, I just want to say if you are unsure of yourself get an electrician, hard to comment except for my own system.
Very clear diagram comes with the suppressor.

You have two line voltage and one neutral. I connected the two line (black) to the two line coming from the house in the illustration and the neutral (white) to the ground bar.

My only issue was the knock out on the side in which the larger 3/4 inch came out with the 1/2 inch, No problem, went to Home Depot and got a conduit reducer. to reduce the 3/4 back to 1/2.

Took more than a few shots so you could see slightly different angles. The two extreme left and right wires on the buss are going down to the outside unit. (load) along with the center green/ground. The two coming in from the back with the copper ground wire are coming from the house breaker panel. Of course the White and Two Black going out the side is the Surge Suppressor. Also notice the gentle loops I made with the surge wires, Ive read many places sharp bends are no good for surge suppressors and 4 inch loop or gentle loop is ideal

 

[Nukeman7]

Thanks for the excellent photos and the schematic. Looks like a piece of cake: Black wires to line from main breaker box and white wire to neutral/ground buss terminal. I'll be extra careful with removing the knockout since my box is plastic.

Final question: Did you shoot those photos with your iPhone?

 

[alarmguy]

Thanks for the excellent photos and the schematic. Looks like a piece of cake: Black wires to line from main breaker box and white wire to neutral/ground buss terminal. I'll be extra careful with removing the knockout since my box is plastic.

Final question: Did you shoot those photos with your iPhone?

Sure thing, Im big on surge devices, never had one on my AC UNITS in the last house. At the time my neighbor had his two units replaced and then became aware of them. You are correct, piece of cake and satisfying for me.

Yes, I took the photos with my iPhone 13. Actually any photo I post in here is from that phone.

 

[dcd]

I had the installer put surge protection on the outside and inside units when I had a Trane inverter heat pump installed a couple of years ago.

This is what they used. Appears to be about $69 on Amazon now. I think it was cheaper at the time.

 

[Kantaro]

Yes, I just want to say if you are unsure of yourself get an electrician, hard to comment except for my own system.
Very clear diagram comes with the suppressor.

You have two line voltage and one neutral. I connected the two line (black) to the two line coming from the house in the illustration and the neutral (white) to the ground bar.

My only issue was the knock out on the side in which the larger 3/4 inch came out with the 1/2 inch, No problem, went to Home Depot and got a conduit reducer. to reduce the 3/4 back to 1/2.

Took more than a few shots so you could see slightly different angles. The two extreme left and right wires on the buss are going down to the outside unit. (load) along with the center green/ground. The two coming in from the back with the copper ground wire are coming from the house breaker panel. Of course the White and Two Black going out the side is the Surge Suppressor. Also notice the gentle loops I made with the surge wires, Ive read many places sharp bends are no good for surge suppressors and 4 inch loop or gentle loop is ideal

View attachment 227397

View attachment 227398

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Ideally they should be pigtailed instead of double tapped lugs, especially if the disconnect lugs are only rated for one wire. You can use the excess wire from the SPD for the pigtails

 

[alarmguy]

Ideally they should be pigtailed instead of double tapped lugs, especially if the disconnect lugs are only rated for one wire. You can use the excess wire from the SPD for the pigtails

Good point, I was bothered by which way to go and not sure of an “accepted” solution.
The reason being Im pretty sure you can’t pigtail connections in a breaker box or double tap. Yet this is a connection box so not sure what applies.

Since a surge is not a current drawing device I chose to double tap in order to maintain the integrity of the high current connections to the buss/disconnect and compressor. But then again maybe that is the idea of pigtailing.
How much sense that makes I will now have to look it up but almost certain of … ?

Edit:
I found two videos quickly and can see both methods used but the first video seems to be the correct way as you mention.
I only briefly found these and going back to sleep now LOL

Being the SPD is labeled as 10 gauge I may go back one day and do as you suggest. I would like some confirmation from an electrician or read up online but you make perfect sense.
Great post, thanks for your reply/input.







It’s amazing the disparity in the way these things are hooked up by AC technicians.
I do think because ant one time depending on the state some SPDs could be hooked up in different ways.
After looking more I agree with your post as I mentioned.
Here is another AC guy doing the same thing yet the first video aligns with the right way and he mentions it.

 

[Pablo]

These "surge" suppressors are good, but no mention of more sophisticated voltage line monitors?

There are spikes that can harm the circuitry of some equipment that won't blow a MOV. Some of the line monitors combine both, and you can read the spikes over time. I have no protection now, and am thinking about the ICM 493. Anyone use one?

ICM493 | ICM Controls

Learn more about ICM493 from ICM Controls. ISO Certified manufacturer.

www.icmcontrols.com

https://www.amazon.com/ICM-Controls-ICM493-Monitor-Supression/dp/B01M16A7P3

 

[alarmguy]

These "surge" suppressors are good, but no mention of more sophisticated voltage line monitors?

There are spikes that can harm the circuitry of some equipment that won't blow a MOV. Some of the line monitors combine both, and you can read the spikes over time. I have no protection now, and am thinking about the ICM 493. Anyone use one?

ICM493 | ICM Controls

Learn more about ICM493 from ICM Controls. ISO Certified manufacturer.

www.icmcontrols.com

https://www.amazon.com/ICM-Controls-ICM493-Monitor-Supression/dp/B01M16A7P3

I guess it just depends if it is worth it to you. Sounds like it doesnt do much more than what I am about to post in the link below and chose not to use one. The one you post does have its own contactor and I would consider maybe more complete for lack of better word?
I would disagree with your statement that it will contain spikes that could damage equipment that a SPD will not. It has a built in SPD the same as the others. No different and if that circuit eventually goes bad you have to replace the whole thing.
It does offer low voltage cut off as others do should you want to go that route if you think that is an issue and would like some protection from low voltage.
So I look at it this way, your installing and trusting a third party electronic product not to fail and if it does your system goes down and unusable where a surge suppressor is a passive device and no failure of the SPD product will take down your system.

Just to be clear I am not knocking this product in anyway, just why I choose not to for these reasons. Im sure it's a robust well thought out device, it looks that way. If you want the expense of hiring an electrician and re-routing all the compressor wiring from your home to this box in essence turning over control of it to this device or the time and effort of doing it yourself for valid concerns its all what makes us happy in the end. Also keep in mind if something goes wrong with it, that you local AC guy will be able to replace it and get your system up and running again, as all power to your system relies on this after market product. Even if something simple like the contactor in it goes bad. In standard AC systems the repair guy takes one off the truck and replaces it, what will happen with this one, from what I see in the photo nothing looks standard.

Intermatic offers much the same product at least in the objective to prevent low voltage (brownouts) harm. But you do not have to re-route the power supply from the condensing unit to the device and can be hooked up by a knowledgeable layperson. The existing system continues to use its own contactor too. It pretty much trips the lowvoltage wiring form the thermostat to shut down the compressor should a brown out occur.

I chose not to install one I dont want a third party electronic that can fail and render my system unusable until it gets replaced or removed. But I guess more so, I dont feel I need it as most modern HVAC systems will not short cycle, typically the thermostat properly set up will prevent this. If you are concerned about brownouts I have no knowledge how well modern HVAC systems deal with this.

This contains brown out protection -

https://www.intermatic.com/Catalog/us/Products/Surge-Protection/Hard-Wired-Surge/CD1-024R

So not to confuse others in the previous posts we are talking about this device below, simply passive surge suppression that I installed and another going to shortly. To me, the low cost just adds some value of protection that will last for a long time and if anything happens with it, your system continues to work just like if you never bothered to install it.

https://www.intermatic.com/Catalog/us/Products/Surge-Protection/Hard-Wired-Surge/AG3000

 

[Pablo]

I guess it just depends if it is worth it to you. Sounds like it doesnt do much more than what I am about to post in the link below and chose not to use one. The one you post does have its own contactor and I would consider maybe more complete for lack of better word?
I would disagree with your statement that it will contain spikes that could damage equipment that a SPD will not. It has a built in SPD the same as the others. No different and if that circuit eventually goes bad you have to replace the whole thing.
It does offer low voltage cut off as others do should you want to go that route if you think that is an issue and would like some protection from low voltage.
So I look at it this way, your installing and trusting a third party electronic product not to fail and if it does your system goes down and unusable where a surge suppressor is a passive device and no failure of the SPD product will take down your system.

Just to be clear I am not knocking this product in anyway, just why I choose not to for these reasons. Im sure it's a robust well thought out device, it looks that way. If you want the expense of hiring an electrician and re-routing all the compressor wiring from your home to this box in essence turning over control of it to this device or the time and effort of doing it yourself for valid concerns its all what makes us happy in the end. Also keep in mind if something goes wrong with it, that you local AC guy will be able to replace it and get your system up and running again, as all power to your system relies on this after market product. Even if something simple like the contactor in it goes bad. In standard AC systems the repair guy takes one off the truck and replaces it, what will happen with this one, from what I see in the photo nothing looks standard.

Intermatic offers much the same product at least in the objective to prevent low voltage (brownouts) harm. But you do not have to re-route the power supply from the condensing unit to the device and can be hooked up by a knowledgeable layperson. The existing system continues to use its own contactor too. It pretty much trips the lowvoltage wiring form the thermostat to shut down the compressor should a brown out occur.

I chose not to install one I dont want a third party electronic that can fail and render my system unusable until it gets replaced or removed. But I guess more so, I dont feel I need it as most modern HVAC systems will not short cycle, typically the thermostat properly set up will prevent this. If you are concerned about brownouts I have no knowledge how well modern HVAC systems deal with this.

This contains brown out protection -

https://www.intermatic.com/Catalog/us/Products/Surge-Protection/Hard-Wired-Surge/CD1-024R

So not to confuse others in the previous posts we are talking about this device below, simply passive surge suppression that I installed and another going to shortly. To me, the low cost just adds some value of protection that will last for a long time and if anything happens with it, your system continues to work just like if you never bothered to install it.

https://www.intermatic.com/Catalog/us/Products/Surge-Protection/Hard-Wired-Surge/AG3000

That's just it. You can set the voltage - the pluses and minuses of that need to be considered. It's up to the user. Some of the inverters can be harmed at 255 V or so, some maybe lower, most a bit higher. The fact this protection is not part of the unit kinda irks me.

I ran the wiring for two heat pumps, now. HVAC guys just connected them. Doesn't look too difficult.

I am wondering if you could do both. Hmmmm............

 

[alarmguy]

That's just it. You can set the voltage - the pluses and minuses of that need to be considered. It's up to the user. Some of the inverters can be harmed at 255 V or so, some maybe lower, most a bit higher. The fact this protection is not part of the unit kinda irks me.

I ran the wiring for two heat pumps, now. HVAC guys just connected them. Doesn't look too difficult.

I am wondering if you could do both. Hmmmm............

It's all good, what works for you. I get it, truly. Im just wondering how much more effective it will be by being able to reduce the range by the default 10%

Meaning I am not so sure one needs to set voltage parameters and I am not seeing the clamping voltages anywhere on their website.
I doubt very much anything will be below 300V clamping but I dont know, all good. Im just saying that it doesnt mean a less involved device like the ones mentioned will not protect what you are installing.
I wish I could see clear UL accepted numbers is all. It you just got the heat pumps connected then that means you have to undo that wiring and connect it to this device first and from the device to the heat pump.
Meaning the heat pump wiring on the device you posted goes to the device first then to the heat pump. Im not saying anything against this product just trying to understand the benefit vs possible failures.

 

[dcd]

These "surge" suppressors are good, but no mention of more sophisticated voltage line monitors?

There are spikes that can harm the circuitry of some equipment that won't blow a MOV. Some of the line monitors combine both, and you can read the spikes over time. I have no protection now, and am thinking about the ICM 493. Anyone use one?

Not exactly the same thing, but I got a Ting sensor free through my insurance company that tracks voltage sags and swells. Its main purpose is fire prevention by detecting electrical arcing, but it also monitors for low and high voltages. If a real surge occurs, will know and have proof for insurance company. If my expensive Trane inverter unit quits working and is falsely blamed on a surge, I will have proof that a surge did not occur.

 

[alarmguy]

Not exactly the same thing, but I got a Ting sensor free through my insurance company that tracks voltage sags and swells. Its main purpose is fire prevention by detecting electrical arcing, but it also monitors for low and high voltages. If a real surge occurs, will know and have proof for insurance company. If my expensive Trane inverter unit quits working and is falsely blamed on a surge, I will have proof that a surge did not occur.

I like instrumentation of all kinds and it would be really cool. I’ve read about this a while ago. My insurance company doesn’t participate. Progressive.
I can get it on my own, but I don’t want to pay

 

[dcd]

I like instrumentation of all kinds and it would be really cool. I’ve read about this a while ago. My insurance company doesn’t participate. Progressive.
I can get it on my own, but I don’t want to pay

They are cheaper than they used to be. I got another one for my parents last Christmas. I paid for it since their insurance company didn’t participate. Seems like it was less than $100 with a $50 per year renewal fee for continued monitoring. When I got mine I think it was closer to $300 without insurance. I know one of the main engineers for the device which turned me on to it. It is actually quite sophisticated instrumentation. I believe most of the brains/analysis is done in the cloud.

My parents were complaining about lights flickering and have had previous electrical issues in their 1910’s farmhouse. Turns out it was just an LED fixture going bad, but I still feel better with them having it. I know of at least 3 people in the last few years with major fire damage due to electrical issues.

 

[alarmguy]

They are cheaper than they used to be. I got another one for my parents last Christmas. I paid for it since their insurance company didn’t participate. Seems like it was less than $100 with a $50 per year renewal fee for continued monitoring. When I got mine I think it was closer to $300 without insurance. I know one of the main engineers for the device which turned me on to it. It is actually quite sophisticated instrumentation. I believe most of the brains/analysis is done in the cloud.

My parents were complaining about lights flickering and have had previous electrical issues in their 1910’s farmhouse. Turns out it was just an LED fixture going bad, but I still feel better with them having it. I know of at least 3 people in the last few years with major fire damage due to electrical issues.

Our new home has ARC sensing breakers in the living areas I wonder if those are as sensitive, though it’s not the entire home that are considered living areas such as kitchen and baths. I suspect so because an electrician in the area told me they are a PITA sometimes

It would have been handy in our last home and now I wonder if their were more. For about a decade we had an arcing wire on my daughters bedroom light switch. Only discovered after she finished college and moved out, that room was turned into my wife’s home office, still with bedroom furniture.
My wife’s work station required Ethernet as Wi fi not allowed. We used a power line adapter for the connection. I noticed when I turned on the light in the room the power line adapter signal light would go from green to amber indicating just an ok connection instead of great connection.

I thought it was the LED light bulb so put in a filament light bulb, same thing. Pulled the light switch from the wall mounting and the wire connected to the switch was fine but at the other end the wire came right out of the wire nut that connected it. For a decade the tip of the wire it was resting unsecured inside the wire nut making contact. Tip was burnt/brazed. If this was an electric outlet with a higher current device …

Now I wonder if there were more, it was a larger home. We bought new and before we closed I used a circuit tester on the outlets and found a number of miswired outlets (11) and GFCIs before closing.

 

[dcd]

Our new home has ARC sensing breakers in the living areas I wonder if those are as sensitive, though it’s not the entire home that are considered living areas such as kitchen and baths. I suspect so because an electrician in the area told me they are a PITA sometimes

Good question about arc sensing breakers (AFCIs). Not sure if they are as sensitive, but definitely safer in the sense they open when an arc is detected. They are more akin to a sprinkler system whereas the Ting sensor is more like a smoke detector in terms of protection.

AFCIs are required by code (NEC), so that is why they are common in new construction. A quick check of a popular brand online shows they are about 6 times more expensive than a standard breaker.

 

[alarmguy]

..

AFCIs are required by code (NEC), so that is why they are common in new construction. A quick check of a popular brand online shows they are about 6 times more expensive than a standard breaker.

Yes, I noticed they were pricey/