Anyone else having a good lol at Hyundai?

[CKN]

Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not-many of us would want to be treated differently when we buy a high end product. That is why many real estate offices have agents that deal in high end property, that is why banks have employees that only deal with business owners and high end clients, that is why you will get a free suite, airfare and food in Las Vegas if your rich enough to gamble big dollars.

Preferential treatment for those with high incomes is a way of life in case you were not aware of it.

 

[fdcg27]

Hyundai will eventually mature into a maker of a solid lineup of cars that enjoy widespread credibility. They aren't there yet.
Right now, it appears that Hyundai is getting a little carried away in its offerings and its pricing.
A Sonata will still not command Accord or Camry dollars among educated buyers and very few people shopping for something as costly as a Benz or a BMW will be shopping any Hyundai.
Hyundai and its companion Kia brand have also yet to be accepted by the bible of upper middle class consumption that is CR.
Still, Hyundai has done pretty well over the past ten years.
The cars are much better looking and driving than used to be the case and the durability/reliability standards seem to have improved radically.
Hyundai is solid in this market now and may well grow in share.
May not, though, since the entrenched brands have both tremendous market cred and good products of their own.
Finally, Hyundai has the best and most amusing print ads I've seen in years for any product.
That alone indicates that this is a company clever enough that it must be taken seriously.

 

[Danno]

Originally Posted By: Koz1
I had a Hyundai.
It was one that had a ring problem loosing compression and smoking.
It was getting worse and worse fuel mileage, it felt like it had less power as well dealer refused to do anything so I got rid of it.

What model? What year? What engine?

 

[Vuflanovsky]

Oh, it's very easy to acknowledge but I don't usually associate buying a car with being a Las Vegas "whale" or buying a 10 million dollar property. My point was less about the 1% or some "class struggle" argument as it was about being "reality based". Preferential treatment and the expectation of preferential treatment doesn't usually have much to do with reality...and more to do with expectations. I don't doubt that different dealerships are better at this concept than others but if buying a "high end luxury motorcar" necessitates the equivalent of a cottled buying experience then Hyundai might have chosen correctly not to have spun off a luxury marque. It simply doesn't match their branding without a significant cash outlay that they didn't want to make.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Hyundai will eventually mature into a maker of a solid lineup of cars that enjoy widespread credibility. They aren't there yet.


Maybe not in your mind but as far as the market goes, you're about 7 years behind the times here. Check the reviews, sales reports, reliability surveys etc. Not saying they are number one, just in the mix with the so called 'big boys' and growing. According to numbers, that is the fact.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Oh, it's very easy to acknowledge but I don't usually associate buying a car with being a Las Vegas "whale" or buying a 10 million dollar property. My point was less about the 1% or some "class struggle" argument as it was about being "reality based". Preferential treatment and the expectation of preferential treatment doesn't usually have much to do with reality...and more to do with expectations. I don't doubt that different dealerships are better at this concept than others but if buying a "high end luxury motorcar" necessitates the equivalent of a cottled buying experience then Hyundai might have chosen correctly not to have spun off a luxury marque. It simply doesn't match their branding without a significant cash outlay that they didn't want to make.


Plus One

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Hyundai will eventually mature into a maker of a solid lineup of cars that enjoy widespread credibility. They aren't there yet.


Maybe not in your mind but as far as the market goes, you're about 7 years behind the times here. Check the reviews, sales reports, reliability surveys etc. Not saying they are number one, just in the mix with the so called 'big boys' and growing. According to numbers, that is the fact.


Good luck with all of that, since you own two of the beasts.
When your two cars have reached a dozen years and 175K or so, maybe you can then crow that they're every bit the equal of a Honda Accord.
Let us know when you get there with either car.
BTDT and more with multiple Hondas.

 

[97tbird]

Our 2003 Elantra is at almost 220k miles now, and still a dependable DD / beater car.
It only had ONE mechanical repair so far (radiator replacement). And that's the only time it ever left us stranded.
Other than that, just maintenance items.
I recently replaced all 4 struts at 217k miles.
Still rides/drives very solid, and everything works, except for the dash clock.

And this car was never babied, by any means. After about 150k miles, it has been UNDER-maintained, if anything; it has been driven in all kinds of weather and has never been garaged. It got my wife through college, and it performed great during a road trip from NC to Colorado and back. It's trustworthy, and still keeps running.

I have no clue about the newer generations, but our 2003 Elantra (XD) has been rock solid. My new goal is 300k for the Elantra.

Again, 220k miles, ONE real mechanical repair. Original engine, original Auto trans. (yep and the transmission still shifts great)

(So, at least in our case, I am not having a "LOL" at Hyundai. I feel like having a LOL at Honda and Toyota, because we know many people who have had a LOT more repairs with their so-called "reputed" Japanese brands.)

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Hyundai will eventually mature into a maker of a solid lineup of cars that enjoy widespread credibility. They aren't there yet.


Maybe not in your mind but as far as the market goes, you're about 7 years behind the times here. Check the reviews, sales reports, reliability surveys etc. Not saying they are number one, just in the mix with the so called 'big boys' and growing. According to numbers, that is the fact.


Good luck with all of that, since you own two of the beasts.
When your two cars have reached a dozen years and 175K or so, maybe you can then crow that they're every bit the equal of a Honda Accord.
Let us know when you get there with either car.
BTDT and more with multiple Hondas.


If i desire to keep any car that long, i will. Oh and, I wasn't crowing, just stating facts.

 

[CourierDriver]

Bottom line: If there is a car made, some fanny will eventually sit in it and drive off, there is something for us all, cheap or expensive,,,,imho.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Oh, it's very easy to acknowledge but I don't usually associate buying a car with being a Las Vegas "whale" or buying a 10 million dollar property. My point was less about the 1% or some "class struggle" argument as it was about being "reality based". Preferential treatment and the expectation of preferential treatment doesn't usually have much to do with reality...and more to do with expectations. I don't doubt that different dealerships are better at this concept than others but if buying a "high end luxury motorcar" necessitates the equivalent of a cottled buying experience then Hyundai might have chosen correctly not to have spun off a luxury marque. It simply doesn't match their branding without a significant cash outlay that they didn't want to make.

Honda started Acura brand in mid 80's, Toyota and Nissan started Lexus and Infinity in 1990. Those 3 companies recognized that luxury car buyers are different than general buyers, they learned from GM's Cadillac, Ford's Lincoln.

I bought my cars new with cash(actually cashier checks), and I can tell you that Lexus and MB sale person and financial person are different with Honda, I got better treatment at those dealers than at Honda, that is a reality.

 

[Subdued]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger


http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/main_pop/kpct/kp_koreaimperialism.htm

By all means please dispute the above referenced link which in part covers Japanese rule of Korea. Tell what parts are unfounded and what aren't. Since you are the expert.

You toss this around like it means something, now, in 2015.

That's a really horrible attitude to have.

 

[fdcg27]

Any decent car can be kept that long with no compromises in reliability, engine performance, body and interior integrity or driving dynamics.
Any car that doesn't can't be isn't anything to get excited about.
The only reason that I can see to dispose of any car earlier is that it turns into an unreliable POS that's faling apart.
Also, statements made without any attribution are commonly refered to as opinions, not facts.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: horse123
First, they were just a car manufacturer like Ford or Toyota or VW.

What do you mean by just a car manufacturer? You didn't included GM or Mercedes. Are they not just a car manufacturer?

 

[Vuflanovsky]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Oh, it's very easy to acknowledge but I don't usually associate buying a car with being a Las Vegas "whale" or buying a 10 million dollar property. My point was less about the 1% or some "class struggle" argument as it was about being "reality based". Preferential treatment and the expectation of preferential treatment doesn't usually have much to do with reality...and more to do with expectations. I don't doubt that different dealerships are better at this concept than others but if buying a "high end luxury motorcar" necessitates the equivalent of a cottled buying experience then Hyundai might have chosen correctly not to have spun off a luxury marque. It simply doesn't match their branding without a significant cash outlay that they didn't want to make.

Honda started Acura brand in mid 80's, Toyota and Nissan started Lexus and Infinity in 1990. Those 3 companies recognized that luxury car buyers are different than general buyers, they learned from GM's Cadillac, Ford's Lincoln.

I bought my cars new with cash(actually cashier checks), and I can tell you that Lexus and MB sale person and financial person are different with Honda, I got better treatment at those dealers than at Honda, that is a reality.


My point didn't relate to X brand starting at X date with their luxury division and learned to treat people in X manner...my point was that Hyundai made the conscious decision to NOT go that route rightly or wrongly. Who knows, that might change in time. I think it's a given that you'll likely receive better treatment in a Benz dealership than in a Honda, Toyota, etc. dealership. Again, Hyundai chose NOT to have a spun off division considering the financial outlay and branding dissonance ( more than if they just kept their divisions whole ). I'm not claiming that there's no difference in the way buyers are treated...I AM claiming that they probably shouldn't expect the same type of experience as if they were buying an E class Benz.

The expectation versus the reality of the experience can differ among people and if paying for a car cash ( I also do that ) makes you a more viable customer in your mind than someone that they can make more money off of in monthly payments then that might be on the particular dealership, your sensibilities, and a host of other things. My expectation is that a dealer won't give two effs about me in real terms after I leave the lot so a "cottled" buying experience doesn't mean too much to me as long as the bottomline adds up.

If a typical luxury buyer wants x buying experience and it's recognized that they're different buyers with different sensibilities then that plays into the point that Hyundai didn't feel that differentiating the brand was appropriate given the cost, perception, and numbers of these vehicles that are being sold. That may or may not change over time.

 

[fdcg27]

I'll throw my own experiences into this discussion.
The three best buying experiences we've had with dealerships involved the Ford dealer from which we bought our '97 Aerostar, the old-school small-town GM dealership from which I bought the 318i and the Honda dealership from which we bought the '12 Accord.
Dealership experience is more a matter of the individual store than it is nameplate of the car purchased.
In Hyundai's case, their volume in their higher end cars is low and is likely to remain so for some years. It would have made little sense for Hyundai or any dealer to set up a separate distribution channel given the current volume.
The higher end of the Hyundai lineup exists in a fairly small segment of the overall market with many competitors.
Hyundai also lacks a product with the appeal of the original Lexus V-8 cars, which were astoundingly well engineered and built, offering S-class size and performance for 300E prices.
Hyundai may be able to grow its luxury car operations over time. If it can't, it will have made a fairly low-cost attempt at this market.
I wrote above that Hyundai wasn't quite there yet in terms of market perception. They get closer to being a serious competitor to the established brands with each new generation.
The Germans laughed when Lexus debuted. They aren't laughing now. Honda and Toyota are probably having a few chuckles at Hyundai's expense at the moment. With continued progress by Hyundai, their laughter may turn to tears in the not too distant future. Not yet, but that day may well come.
Of course by then, there may be serious Chinese and maybe Indian competitors nipping at everyone's heels.
After all, Chinese and Indian concerns bought some serious brands in the Ford fire sale of only a few years back.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
They've been cannibalizing Big Three small car sales since they came here, now they're after the large car sales too. I'm still not that impressed with them, they still seem to be falling apart after 3-5 years.


I don't generally like renting Hyundai's. I feel they fall short in the refinement department. Especially when the rental has a few miles on it.

But, I was curious about the reliability ratings from real owners. So, I went over to my very favorite reliability site, www.truedelta.com, where one can find truthful, long term reliability information.

As I suspected, Hyundai is competing well with BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar, for poor reliability. (just a lame attempt at humor) . Actually, when comparing the Sonata to the Accord or Camry, the Sonata is 2x to 3x less reliable, as expected. When comparing the Elantra to the Civic or Corolla, the picture improves a bit, with Hyundai only 1.5x to 2x worse on average. Interestingly, Hyundai was better than the Civic in 2010.

I expected Honda and Toyota to be better choices. The numbers seem to back this up. Believe it or not, in some cases, Hyundai can actually be more expensive, making it a less attractive choice on a number of fronts.

 

[CKN]

Yep, Hyundai didn't feel the need for differentiation for their Genesis product. I can guarantee my friend will not be back for the next purchase.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Hyundai will eventually mature into a maker of a solid lineup of cars that enjoy widespread credibility. They aren't there yet.


^this is the opinion.


Whereas below are some facts. Facts that support credibility. Maybe you missed them when posted much earlier. Anyway, it's been fun but we'll agree to disagree.


http://driving.ca/toyota/corolla/auto-news/news/the-top-10-largest-automakers-in-the-world

http://www.statista.com/statistics/275520/ranking-of-car-manufacturers-based-on-global-sales/

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/09/usa-auto-brand-sales-results-rankings-august-2014-ytd.html

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I wrote above that Hyundai wasn't quite there yet in terms of market perception. They get closer to being a serious competitor to the established brands with each new generation.
The Germans laughed when Lexus debuted. They aren't laughing now. Honda and Toyota are probably having a few chuckles at Hyundai's expense at the moment. With continued progress by Hyundai, their laughter may turn to tears in the not too distant future. Not yet, but that day may well come.
Of course by then, there may be serious Chinese and maybe Indian competitors nipping at everyone's heels.
After all, Chinese and Indian concerns bought some serious brands in the Ford fire sale of only a few years back.


Fair comment. This thread alone echos the perception challenges still plaguing the brand by some, especially luxury marquee buyers.