Any Updated "Best" Oil Filters List???

[k1rod]

Originally Posted By: wemis
I honestly wasn't aware that Fram now makes the Ultra filter. I read a lot of bad things about the basic Fram filters. I wouldn't hesitate to get the Ultra based on everyone's recommendations. I actually was at Walmart a bit ago, and they were sold out of Ultras for my vehicle. I have to go to AAP and pick up a filter. It will either be a PureOne or Ultra.


I hate Fram oil filters. I am using one right now and it's a excellent filter. How's that for a contradiction? In explanation, I think most Fram oil filters historically and (as depicted by the numerous postings on this site of cut open Extra Guard, Tough Guard's etc..) are shoddy. They may work OK but the lack of attention to detail in manufacturing doesn't inspire confidence. For some reason though Fram decided to go a completely different route with their Ultra's. These are as good as it gets. They are in the same league as Napa Platinum, Amsoil, Royal Purple and any of the other "super filters". And often at a better price.

 

[LScowboy]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
We know absolutely nothing about how a filter is going to be challenged in a hypothetical situation with no boundaries or descriptions.


well we do know that a Motorcraft FL-400S quieted KCJeep's Jeep when nothing else he tried would, though he hasn't tried every filter yet.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Folks, there is no "best" filter, and certainly no "best filter list", except that which exists in the bigot'ed mind of the public due to marketing hype. (And I'd include some BITOGers in that comment, too).


Is it irony, then, that BITOG and bigot can be spelled with the same letters?

 

[EType]

If I extend dnewton3's findings that (excepting abuse) there is no difference between the filters we buy in terms of engine wear, then the best filter in my opinion (there I said it) would be the longest life rated filter you could buy.

This is based on the following:

1) dnewton found that a filter rated for 5000 miles could go 2 to 3 times that distance. Following the same logic, a filter rated for 15000 miles could go 2 to 3 times that distance, most likely making it more cost effective.

2) There would be time savings from not having to change the filter as often.

So from a time and money perspective, with the assumptions that all filters have the same result from an engine longevity point of view and all filters can safely go 2 to 3 times the distance, the best filter is the longest rated filter at the lowest price.

That could be M1 for $8 from Amazon or FRAM Ultra.

 

[Zhukov]

I don't like extrapolating from a few data points to assume that a 15,000 mile filter could last three times as long. The time savings is negligible too IMO.

Purolator classic for me, $3.25 at Wal Mart.

 

[k1rod]

Originally Posted By: Zhukov
I don't like extrapolating from a few data points to assume that a 15,000 mile filter could last three times as long. The time savings is negligible too IMO.

Purolator classic for me, $3.25 at Wal Mart.


Good point Zhukov... (hmmmm I know that user name from somewhere else.

.) You can't extrapolate anything from that. Oil manufacturers likely know that their 5,000 mile oil filters can actually filter out to 15,000 miles but don't advertise it as such because they want you to buy new filters. Then when they produce a "premium" filter with an additional 20% capacity and advertise it as a 15,000 mile filter, it really may be able to go 18,000 to 20,000 miles before clogging. To assume 45K miles is to invite disaster.

 

[dnewton3]

I just want to clarify some things so that I'm not misquoted or misunderstood ...

It is completely inappropriate to presume that that 3x factor is applicable to all filters for all situations. I have never, nor would ever, make such a statement.

What I've said is that most "normal" oils and filters are far more capable than most folks think. I've mentioned that OEM OCIs are typically predicated on the ultra-conservative approach to protect the OEM in regard to warranty exposure.

I've got lots of data that shows filters have negligible effects on wear rates evidenced in used oil analysis, as long as the equipment is in good conditions and the minimum threshold of efficiency (OEM specs) is met.

I will also note that Jim Allan is in the midst of testing the dP differential settings, and how they effect bypass, in real world situations. His preliminary findings are that filters don't go into bypass often (very infrequently) and only in specific situations (cold oil and high revs generally), and they are capable of longer FCIs than most think. Therefore, this supports my theory, when combined with good info like UOA macro data and SAE studies such as 2007-01-4133, that extended OCIs are not dangerous to the filters, hence extended FCIs are often able to be paired up with the OCI.

I've been on record many times speaking to the concept that most normal products are far more capable than folks realize, and therefore extended OCIs and FCI are certainly possible, and often probable, when that healthy equipment is paired up with good quality products, and then a very-well-designed maintenacne program is applied, using tools such as used oil analysis, PCs, compression checks, visual inspections, etc. Product use extensions should NOT be done blindly; they are to be done with full recognition of the risks and benefits of the situation unique to each application. using a wide compliment of tools to track the success or failure of the progression.

But I have NEVER inferred that the 3x factor is applicable across the board to every situation for filters or lubes.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3

But I have NEVER inferred that the 3x factor is applicable across the board to every situation for filters or lubes.


My apologies - I probably didn't read your post thoroughly enough.

 

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted By: k1rod

Good point Zhukov... (hmmmm I know that user name from somewhere else.

.)


Are you someone I've banned, or have threatened to ban?

 

[SOHCman]

Since both purolator classic and P1 seem to top the list, I was recently inspecting the classics at walmart and noticed a black colored ADBV instead of the red/orange of the p1.

Is this infact not silicone, and therefore inferior for use on engines with horizontal mounted filters? P1s are about twice the price unless on sale. Would a classic be good for non extended OCIs? How long can the non silicone ADBVs (adobes, according to my auto correct

) go?

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: SOHCman
Since both purolator classic and P1 seem to top the list, I was recently inspecting the classics at walmart and noticed a black colored ADBV instead of the red/orange of the p1. Is this infact not silicone, and therefore inferior for use on engines with horizontal mounted filters?


That is correct; the Classic uses a standard nitrile ADBV. It may or may not present a problem, and it doesn't have to be a horizontal-mounted filter to have ADBV-related issues. Even filters that mount with the thread-end up can experience issues with leaking ADBVs. Remember, an ADBV not only prevents oil from gravity-draining from the filter (if it's mounted horizontal), but it also prevents oil from being pushed out of the filter from head-pressure in the supply gallery (the center outlet hole of the filter). All the oil above the filter that would normally be pushed through the engine by the oil pump now (with the engine off) wants to flow back into filter, due to gravity. With a leaking ADBV, even on a vertical-mounted filter, this head pressure can push the oil back out of the filter. The filter itself may stay "primed", but the oil gallery above is now empty, giving the engine a split second of "dry start".

Originally Posted By: SOHCman
P1s are about twice the price unless on sale. Would a classic be good for non extended OCIs? How long can the non silicone ADBVs (adobes, according to my auto correct

) go?


I wouldn't run a Classic for too awful long...I told BOF in another thread that my personal opinion is that a Classic is good through about 7,500 miles. The media simply isn't designed to be an extended-drain media, and as you said, the nitrile ADBV will tend to become less pliable over time.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Here is a sketch that illustrates this:

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Even filters that mount with the thread-end up can experience issues with leaking ADBVs. Remember, an ADBV not only prevents oil from gravity-draining from the filter (if it's mounted horizontal), but it also prevents oil from being pushed out of the filter from head-pressure in the supply gallery (the center outlet hole of the filter). All the oil above the filter that would normally be pushed through the engine by the oil pump now (with the engine off) wants to flow back into filter, due to gravity. With a leaking ADBV, even on a vertical-mounted filter, this head pressure can push the oil back out of the filter. The filter itself may stay "primed", but the oil gallery above is now empty, giving the engine a split second of "dry start.


Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Here is a sketch that illustrates this:

Good point, and good explanation. I always go for filters with a silicone ADBV. PureOnes have been working great for me in terms of the ADBV working very well.

Here's a thread where I did a little ADBV test.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...807#Post2042807

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Well, eveyone knows that ANY filter a Honda uses is the best. They can be used for 1582 OCIs.

 

[LScowboy]

many filters tout their advanced "glass fiber" media - what if a glass fiber breaks free, oh great, now you essentially have sand running around in your engine!

and who is to say that the ADBV design isn't the most important feature of all, why does only a Motorcraft filter completely quiet KCJeep's noisy Jeep?

and when people badmouth leaf type springs or fiber end caps, any real science or evidence to back that up?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: LScowboy
many filters tout their advanced "glass fiber" media - what if a glass fiber breaks free, oh great, now you essentially have sand running around in your engine!

and who is to say that the ADBV design isn't the most important feature of all, why does only a Motorcraft filter completely quiet KCJeep's noisy Jeep?

and when people badmouth leaf type springs or fiber end caps, any real science or evidence to back that up?


I think it's more personal opinion and preference than science. If science were the real means of explanation fram wouldn't be held in such low regard.

 

[dnewton3]

!!! STOP !!!

I cannot believe that this has to be said, but that lovely hand-drawn diagram is completely booty-backwards.


Traditional filters flow from the OUTER portion of the media, in through the center tube, and out the center hole into the equipment. The oil enters the filter via the outer-ring of holes around the base plate, goes through the media, and exits the center hole.

And if you take apart a filter, and see where the typical ADBV seals against it's normal position, you'd also find this to be true.

Not only would his ADBV not work, but his (not pictured) bypass valve NEVER work, because it would be putting pressure in the WRONG direction (holding it forever closed even as delta-P continued to build up).

And just for the final death-blow, in his drawing, the media would be pushed outwards (having no restraining device) and collapse along the sidewall of the can. In a "normal" filter, the flow inward pushes the media against the tube and the tube keeps the folds from collapsing inward.

Guys - this is filter 101 here; what are you thinking? Were some of you asleep or just liquored-up and didn't see this? Three fundemental core concepts are violated in that drawing; wrong flow makes for a permanently shut bypass, no ADBV function, and collapsed media pushed outwards. That is about as messed up a drawing as there ever has been.

Sorry to be so blunt, but Hokiefyd has it completely wrong, and that kind of info is NOT helpful to the uninformed!



You need to completely ignore that drawing, erase anything said about that relationship, and then continue your conversation ...


You are all hereby admonished, put into Saturday BITOG detention, your BITOG posting priviledges are revoked until you say 10 Hail-Moly's and 5 Our-Filters, and all will be forgiven.

 

[Jim Allen]

Dave, he wasn't showing actual flow, but backflow, which is how the filter might be drained with the engine at rest.

 

[dnewton3]

Oh.

Never mind. Boy I feel dumb now.


As I sheepisly slink away ....


Sorry Hokie. I will flog myself with used filter media for my transgressions ...

 

[Hokiefyd]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear earlier. Yes, that illustration is supposed to show how the oil that's already in the engine would try to back-flow through a conventional filter that's mounted to the bottom of the engine.

Something that probably does need to be said, however, is that engine lubrication system design is increasingly "non-conventional", and you can sometimes find filters mounted remotely or not on the bottom of the engine (such as the top-side filter location on Chrysler Pentastars and some Toyota 4.0L V-6 engines). Some aspects of this discussion may still apply, but not necessarily everything. You probably wouldn't have an oiling system trying to gravity flow back through a filter if it's mounted at the top of the engine.