Any FRAM users here?

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
^^fram paid for the damages their filters caused while trying to cover from a potential lawsuit gone supernova on them by denying the facts. They obviously did this to pacify cummins in hopes that it would be left alone at that. The old deny but pacify and hope it suffices because they were subject to a massive [censored] kicking if cummins decided to drop the hammer. Lawyers know how to ease into a matter carefully to try and limit consequences yet not leave themselves without a chance to deny guilt if necessary. Otherwise they would have refused to pay a dime.
They fixed a defective product out of necessity and for no other reason by designing a new filter.


I highly doubt Cummings would let Fram put out that TSB specifically saying they found no evidence it was filter caused, and that along with Cummings involved in the whole investigation. Sounds more like Fram didn't want to be the scapegoat for any future engine failures caused by other reasons, so they decided to curb all doubt by changing the filter design so nobody could take false claim.

Always two sides to every story, and the truth is someplace in between each story.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
^^fram paid for the damages their filters caused while trying to cover from a potential lawsuit gone supernova on them by denying the facts. They obviously did this to pacify cummins in hopes that it would be left alone at that. The old deny but pacify and hope it suffices because they were subject to a massive [censored] kicking if cummins decided to drop the hammer. Lawyers know how to ease into a matter carefully to try and limit consequences yet not leave themselves without a chance to deny guilt if necessary. Otherwise they would have refused to pay a dime.
They fixed a defective product out of necessity and for no other reason by designing a new filter.


I highly doubt Cummings would let Fram put out that TSB specifically saying they found no evidence it was filter caused, and that along with Cummings involved in the whole investigation. Sounds more like Fram didn't want to be the scapegoat for any future engine failures caused by other reasons, so they decided to curb all doubt by changing the filter design so nobody could take false claim.

Always two sides to every story, and the truth is someplace in between each story.
They were also looking at $7,000 per engine, on warranty claims VERIFIED by Cummins factory personnel, and an ugly unwinnable court case if Fram had let it go that far. Unfortunately Puro/Mann & Hummel hasn't had that kind of hammer, and honestly virtually no proven engine damage, either. Doesn't mean I want to use them, though.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
The old deny but pacify and hope it suffices....

Kind of what Purolator is doing now, too? Additionally, Purolator has also said things about tweaking their design, too, even though they deny that Purolator filters tear. So, they, too, are fixing a problem that they deny exists?

 

[goodtimes]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
The only product I like of theirs is the Ultra, and I have a few concerns with it too.


What concerns? I'm curious to hear.

When I cut mine open, I wasn't very impressed with how the ADBV seals against the baseplate. I'm sure it's OK for an oil filter. Specifically the rough surface that the ADBV presses onto, and the very close proximity of the sealing area to the inlet holes on that model, XG3614. The last concern of the three was the nub centering method when the ADBV sits like it does with nothing else to hold it centered. The nubs have to have some play. They are my concerns, other's mileage may vary. I still will be buying them, or using my free stash. The Denso ADBV locks and centers the ADBV with no play and the inlet holes are farther away was my comparison that day.

 

[Mrsandman]

^^there have been some reports of engine tick at warm up with the fu so there may be something there with that. In the cases I've heard of the ticking stopped when a different filter was put on. That indicates a probable bad adbv causing a dry starts do to the oil draining from the filter while sitting. Also it's possible that those filters were overly restrictive. Either way causing the oil not to reach the internals in time and accelerating wear.

 

[jhellwig]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
^^there have been some reports of engine tick at warm up with the fu so there may be something there with that. In the cases I've heard of the ticking stopped when a different filter was put on. That indicates a probable bad adbv causing a dry starts do to the oil draining from the filter while sitting. Also it's possible that those filters were overly restrictive. Either way causing the oil not to reach the internals in time and accelerating wear.


There have been reports of that with every filter made here.

 

[BigD1]

Have a Fram orange can PH3980 going on next oil change. I think it will work just fine for my drain intervals of 4k to 4.5k. As long as they keep making them in the USA, I will buy them as the need arises.

Last oil change I splurged, and upgraded to a Mobil 1 oil filter, and it was start up rattle heaven. Probably got a bad one I guess.

 

[SilverC6]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I highly doubt Cummings would let Fram put out that TSB specifically saying they found no evidence it was filter caused, and that along with Cummings involved in the whole investigation. Sounds more like Fram didn't want to be the scapegoat for any future engine failures caused by other reasons, so they decided to curb all doubt by changing the filter design so nobody could take false claim.

Always two sides to every story, and the truth is someplace in between each story.


No, Cummins/RAM just put out their own TSB saying use these specific filters if you expect warranty repair.

And guess what, FRAM was not on that list.

The truth is Cummins engines were damaged and the problem was tracked back by Cummins to the FRAM filters being used.

But you can put whatever spin you want on it to help you sleep at night.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No, Cummins/RAM just put out their own TSB saying use these specific filters if you expect warranty repair.

And guess what, FRAM was not on that list.


How is a consumer supposed to know that certain filters are OK and others are bad? I can see how a TSB would affect a dealer's use of certain products, but what about average Joe? In other words, how would I know that use of a Fram filter would invalidate my warranty?

 

[Mrsandman]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No, Cummins/RAM just put out their own TSB saying use these specific filters if you expect warranty repair.

And guess what, FRAM was not on that list.


How is a consumer supposed to know that certain filters are OK and others are bad? I can see how a TSB would affect a dealer's use of certain products, but what about average Joe? In other words, how would I know that use of a Fram filter would invalidate my warranty?

That's why fram had to remove their defective filter from the shelves. Cummins was basically giving fram the bird and excluding then from their list of qualified filters.
How do you-know-what what kind of oil goes in your sump or any fluid your car needs?
It's kinda not rocket science.

So are you staying cool in your mamma's basement this summer?

 

[dlundblad]

I don't ever plan on owning a diesel dodge, but if I do, I'll be sure not to Fram it.

 

[Nate1979]

The problem was not just with Fram in this specific case with Cummins but the Fram haters sure do like to focus only on Fram in this case.

 

[MrQuackers]

Just discovered the ignore feature. nite nite Mr

 

[Malo83]

Originally Posted By: k1rod
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I see KevGuy found a "FRAM Buddy".

ZeeOSix I agree with you. I am sick of these gratuitous "FRAM OCOD's are great" posts. I'm an engineer and I don't see it at all. From my perspective, it is a mediocre, although functional product, priced higher than it should be. (I am entirely excluding Fram Ultra from this. I believe it is a very good product and very good value.) So all you OCOD lovers... Tell us why you think the Orange can is the best value for your money. Go ahead. Make well thought out, reasonable points and everyone here will acknowledge them (or at least not trash them). Regurgitate "pie in the sky platitudes" and we will eviscerate them. This is your chance. Put up or shut up.

Great! another expert

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman

That's why fram had to remove their defective filter from the shelves. Cummins was basically giving fram the bird and excluding then from their list of qualified filters.
How do you-know-what what kind of oil goes in your sump or any fluid your car needs?
It's kinda not rocket science.

So are you staying cool in your mamma's basement this summer?


I've posed technical questions to you about things you've said, I've asked backup on statements you've made. Yet have I made dumb personal comments about you? No. Why would you?

 

[crw]

About 7 or 8 years ago I reported here a situation with a VW 1.8T and a FRAM filter. The engine would knock on every cold startup. Changed the filter to a Purolator and the knock went away. Bad ADBV valve. Take it for what it's worth. Me? Burned once, I won't ever use them again when there are other options available.

I'm not sure if they're all bad, or if they're still bad. I just avoid them. It's a lot like the plastic fantastic cooling systems in a 1998 BMW 3-series that I had. Give it another 10 years and maybe I'll research whether BMW fixed their cooling systems and went back to reliable parts. For now, I ain't interested. ;-)

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: Malo83
Originally Posted By: k1rod
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I see KevGuy found a "FRAM Buddy".

ZeeOSix I agree with you. I am sick of these gratuitous "FRAM OCOD's are great" posts. I'm an engineer and I don't see it at all. From my perspective, it is a mediocre, although functional product, priced higher than it should be. (I am entirely excluding Fram Ultra from this. I believe it is a very good product and very good value.) So all you OCOD lovers... Tell us why you think the Orange can is the best value for your money. Go ahead. Make well thought out, reasonable points and everyone here will acknowledge them (or at least not trash them). Regurgitate "pie in the sky platitudes" and we will eviscerate them. This is your chance. Put up or shut up.

Great! another expert

Lol gotta love how he threw in that he was an engineer as if that gives him some credibility or something.

K1rod, you'll find most legit engineers here don't mention their profession when saying their opinions in threads such as this.

 

[Mrsandman]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman

That's why fram had to remove their defective filter from the shelves. Cummins was basically giving fram the bird and excluding then from their list of qualified filters.
How do you-know-what what kind of oil goes in your sump or any fluid your car needs?
It's kinda not rocket science.

So are you staying cool in your mamma's basement this summer?


I've posed technical questions to you about things you've said, I've asked backup on statements you've made. Yet have I made dumb personal comments about you? No. Why would you?
yes I agree you have and I forgive you for it. I'm glad you got that off your chest. Guilt over the way you have acted and treated others can weigh very heavy on you. Good job repenting. Don't you just feel so much better now?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I've posed technical questions to you about things you've said, I've asked backup on statements you've made. Yet have I made dumb personal comments about you? No. Why would you?
yes I agree you have and I forgive you for it. I'm glad you got that off your chest. Guilt over the way you have acted and treated others can weigh very heavy on you. Good job repenting. Don't you just feel so much better now?


Are you serious?

 

[Mrsandman]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Mrsandman
Originally Posted By: kschachn
I've posed technical questions to you about things you've said, I've asked backup on statements you've made. Yet have I made dumb personal comments about you? No. Why would you?
yes I agree you have and I forgive you for it. I'm glad you got that off your chest. Guilt over the way you have acted and treated others can weigh very heavy on you. Good job repenting. Don't you just feel so much better now?


Are you serious?

Yes I am. I really do forgive you. Now we can move on with a productive discussion.

sometimes just a simple apology can move mountains.
Anyway I'm glad this debate about filter quality is being had. It helps others and ourselves to see what is and is not a quality product.