Antivirus and other tools for Linux?

[The_Eric]

Hi guys, I have some more questions for you.

Some time ago I had read that typically Linux doesn't require an antivirus. As some know, I recently installed Mint 16 (dual boot) on my PC. I am wondering if that still applies? What about the need for spyware/malware software? Are these things not written in such a manner that they can infect a Linux OS, or is Linux just that much more secure?

Also, what about the various utilities, like disk defragging? Are they needed?

 

[JerryBob]

It's mostly a targeting thing. If we all used Linux, they'd target us. Mint is based on Ubuntu, and this is on Ubuntu's website.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus

As for degrag, there are a couple of defrag tools out there, but I've never used them. People say the Linux ext3 filesystems are less prone to fragmentation. This being BITOG, I'd have to say that I've never measured it.

As a Java developer, I use Ubuntu daily, and I probably re-install a new version at least once a year. So fragmentation never has time to take hold.

I cringe at the thought of using Windows for work.

 

[Rand]

its a combination of both.

Harder to write bad stuff that would work on Linux for a variety of reasons... not the least of which you dont usually run as an admin account.

market share...

..you dont need to defragment ext4 file systems.

works differently than fat/fat32/ntfs.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: Rand
not the least of which you dont usually run as an admin account.


Would you explain please, why I shouldn't run as an admin?

 

[Kuato]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: Rand
not the least of which you dont usually run as an admin account.




Would you explain please, why I shouldn't run as an admin?


I think he meant that Linux does not typically run as Admin, but that a Windows OS often does. This gives more access to control settings making it easier for a virus to insinuate itself.

Very true that Linux machines aren't targeted because of volume, but also....

In a very simple explanation, the way a virus works in Windows is by overwriting data. Say you have a piece of data that is 8 bytes long. A virus can write data of any length into that slot without any permission or notification, and your computer is infected. It simply keeps putting data into memory for as much space as it needs and sometimes destroying the program stored where the overwriting occurs.

Linux is different. It will only allow data of the exact size required; so if a virus tried to insert itself into that 8 byte slot and overwrite later data, the operation would be cancelled. So it is resistant to attacks of that sort.


And that's about all I recall from college computing courses about virii.

 

[BearZDefect]

Originally Posted By: Rand
...

..you dont need to defragment ext4 file systems.

works differently than fat/fat32/ntfs.


No doubt there are significant differences between these file systems. Even NTFS is very different from FAT. If a process creates a large file on an NTFS volume and declares this large size at the time of creation, NTFS will allocate one contiguous block, as I'm sure ext4 would do. On the other hand, files that start small and gradually grow over time become highly fragmented, I doubt ext4 will do much better in this scenario.

I'd like to know why you don't need to defragment an ext4 volume. I can imagine something like database files becoming highly fragmented.

 

[Kuato]

Durn short update time.

https://help.ubuntu.com
It is still a good idea to have antivirus with Linux, though, for various reasons. Check out the info at the link above for a thorough discussion. Perform a search for virus.

 

[uc50ic4more]

There is absolutely no need to run anti virus, anti malware, anti spyware and whatever other garbage Windows users have somehow become accustomed to and have accepted as "normal". Do not concern yourself about defragging either. The zen of not having to worry or do anything is very disconcerting to most new Linux users.

 

[285south]

Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
There is absolutely no need to run anti virus, anti malware, anti spyware and whatever other garbage Windows users have somehow become accustomed to and have accepted as "normal". Do not concern yourself about defragging either. The zen of not having to worry or do anything is very disconcerting to most new Linux users.


+10 This is so true. And Windows is not even the right way to use a computer. Back in the day with DOS, you had to actually install the program yourself and then Windows 95 came out and everything went backwards.

Linux is how computing should be, not worrying about viruses, bloat, slow start-up time, having to re-install the OS every 9 months, other headaches, and is cheaper to run since you don't have to spend 90% of your time "maintaining it" and only 10% on your task. In the end, you do what you need to do and not have to waste time "maintaining your OS." Lastly it stays the same, so if you parked your car in the garage and come back a year from now, it is the same as you left it.

 

[285south]

I use Sabayon Linux. DistroWatch.com is a good place to see all whats available. Ubuntu or Suse or Fedora, and Mint is a good starting point. Then Google your town with LUG. LUG is a group of volunteers that will help you out with your questions and even install it for you at their monthly install-fest.

 

[285south]

Old computers are useful too. No need to throw it out. You can make that older beige box into a number of things; a dedicated firewall, NAS, Distributed computing project box (Milkyway@Home), and a home media server.

I recommend:
Old beige box OS replacement - Puppy Linux
Firewall - pfSense or m0n0wall
Network Attached Storage (NAS) - FreeNAS

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: 285south
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
There is absolutely no need to run anti virus, anti malware, anti spyware and whatever other garbage Windows users have somehow become accustomed to and have accepted as "normal". Do not concern yourself about defragging either. The zen of not having to worry or do anything is very disconcerting to most new Linux users.


+10 This is so true. And Windows is not even the right way to use a computer. Back in the day with DOS, you had to actually install the program yourself and then Windows 95 came out and everything went backwards.

Linux is how computing should be, not worrying about viruses, bloat, slow start-up time, having to re-install the OS every 9 months, other headaches, and is cheaper to run since you don't have to spend 90% of your time "maintaining it" and only 10% on your task. In the end, you do what you need to do and not have to waste time "maintaining your OS." Lastly it stays the same, so if you parked your car in the garage and come back a year from now, it is the same as you left it.


It must have been a long time since you've used a Windows machine, because I have invested zero time in maintaining the OS on my 4 year old Win 7 machine. No viruses, no reinstalling the OS - nothing. Updates push in the background once every couple of weeks.

I had Ubuntu 12.04 on a machine for a while, and it had just as many updates pushed to it as my Win 7 machine.

If you want to debate over paying for an OS when there are plenty of freeware OS out there that work just as well, then I agree with you. But Windows is just as stable as any other OS out there.

 

[spackard]

I'm in a business playing field, so maybe different use case from the OP.
AV: Use clamav. (I'm required to run AV on all hosts, so Linux [RHEL] and Unix [Solaris] get clamav.)

Defragment: most of the time the answer is "no".
For a new host, there's concern about partition alignment, and that depends if the host is on a native HDD, on RAID, on SSD, or on a LUN hosted by another storage device.
File system alignment is an issue; not many sysadmins are that aware of it yet.
http://www.netapp.com/us/system/pdf-reader.aspx?m=tr-3747.pdf&cc=us

By default, many guest operating systems, including Windows 2000, Windows 2003, and various Linux distributions, start the first primary partition at sector (logical block) 63. The reasons for this are historically tied to disk geometry. This behavior leads to misaligned file systems because the partition does not begin at a sector that is a multiple of 8.

Note that Windows Server 2008 and Windows Vista® do not require any adjustments. Also, RHEL 6 does not require any adjustments because it aligns its partitions properly by default.


As far as defragmentation, if a filesystem (ufs, ext2, ext3, ext4) gets close to 100% full and runs that way for awhile you'll get a lot of files in extents. If you later expand the filesystem, you will benefit by defragmenting the filesystem. If you expanded the filesystem by adding a few disks, then most of the currently allocated files are on one disk, not the additional empty disks, and you could possibly get more performance by re-laying a new filesystem equally across all disks.

 

[Rand]

ext4

something like this... you can google.
note there is always exceptions.. for example if your hdd is 90+% full it wont work as well.


ext4 acts in a more intelligent way than merely adding new files into the next available space. Instead of placing multiple files near each other on the hard disk, Linux file systems scatter different files all over the disk, leaving a large amount of free space between them. When a file is edited and needs to grow, there’s usually plenty of free space for the file to grow into. If fragmentation does occur, the file system will attempt to move the files around to reduce fragmentation in normal use, without the need for a defragmentation utility.

 

[Garak]

The usual use for AV software in Linux is for someone running a mail server, to protect Windows users from themselves.

 

[uc50ic4more]

Originally Posted By: Garak
The usual use for AV software in Linux is for someone running a mail server, to protect Windows users from themselves.

This is the only practical, real-world use for A/V software on a Linux system I have ever heard of.

 

[BearZDefect]

Rand, thank you for the explanation. I can see how intelligently scattering the files would reduce fragmentation a great deal. It could also increase seek times unnecessarily. But I appreciate that many variables are at play and there are different scenarios. There is no perfect solution for everything. No doubt this is why there are multiple file systems available in Linux, catering to different usage scenarios.

 

[JerryBob]

Some say the Reiser File System was good. Too bad the guy was a sociopath, and killed his wife.

 

[uc50ic4more]

I am pretty sure it was OpenSUSE that was the first big, user-friendly, desktop-oriented distro that put ReiserFS into their main install (I forget which version). I recall downloading a beta to see what Reiser was all about and LO AND BEHOLD, while sitting there prepping the install I see none other than Hans Reiser on the TV!

"Hey, honey, check this out! 60 Minutes has got the Reiser guy on TV and I'll bet they're going to... talk... about... what... the...?" and it turns out to be a profile of this promising tech guy who murdered his wife.

I hit the power button and rebooted back into my ext3 Debian setup. :^)

 

[The_Eric]

Thanks for all you input guys! I appreciate it.

I will refrain from putting on any AV or other software. You're right, after years of Microsoft stuff, I get nervous... Is it okay to log in as "Custom" user instead of Admin?