Amsoil TBN versus M1 / RP in ASTM D2896 Testing
- Thread starter StevieC
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You two are still arguing about this? Is it honestly that big of a deal?
StevieC, sorry to interject, but the page snippet you posted states, "Fortified with detergents that exceed the dexos1 Gen 2 sulfated ash specification." Whether or not they're willing to pay, they are claiming they exceed SA in their Signature Series. It's no different than Red Line claiming their HDEO can be used for CJ-4 applications, even though they're SA is above the limits. That's neither good nor bad in itself, but if email claims are because they won't pay but their literature is saying something else, one or more people at Amsoil either don't know or aren't being forthcoming.
It should be noted that high TBN can still be achieved without pushing SA through the roof. HDEO formulators did it years ago, and Mobil 1 followed suit shortly thereafter.
It should be noted that high TBN can still be achieved without pushing SA through the roof. HDEO formulators did it years ago, and Mobil 1 followed suit shortly thereafter.
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Originally Posted by BigShug681
You two are still arguing about this? Is it honestly that big of a deal?
Some people have nothing better to do,this is one,just smile and walk away
You two are still arguing about this? Is it honestly that big of a deal?
Some people have nothing better to do,this is one,just smile and walk away
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by PimTac
I don't use Amsoil nor do I reject it. It's a good oil. It's just not in my budget.
LOL, in spite of StevieC's assertions about my ego and amsoil...if ACD was available here, even WITH it's old 3.4 HTHS, and at comparable price to M1, there's be nothing else n my shed.
Refuting Amsoil's B$ doesn't make their product bad, or me a "hater" (some fanbois, like with RP like the labels).
I am still very tempted to try SS 5W30. The SS 10W30 would be worth trying in the summer, but they don't come out and say anything about LSPI for it directly...I would highly suspect that its add pack it quite similar to the 5W30's, though (and Amsoil says the 5W30 passed the d1G2 LSPI test). The Noack loss for that 10W30 is pretty insanely low at around 4%, although I am quite comfortable running other oils in the 10% range...I just want to put an oil like that in the sump one day and FEEL that lack of Noack loss as I drive, you know???
;^)
Originally Posted by PimTac
I don't use Amsoil nor do I reject it. It's a good oil. It's just not in my budget.
LOL, in spite of StevieC's assertions about my ego and amsoil...if ACD was available here, even WITH it's old 3.4 HTHS, and at comparable price to M1, there's be nothing else n my shed.
Refuting Amsoil's B$ doesn't make their product bad, or me a "hater" (some fanbois, like with RP like the labels).
I am still very tempted to try SS 5W30. The SS 10W30 would be worth trying in the summer, but they don't come out and say anything about LSPI for it directly...I would highly suspect that its add pack it quite similar to the 5W30's, though (and Amsoil says the 5W30 passed the d1G2 LSPI test). The Noack loss for that 10W30 is pretty insanely low at around 4%, although I am quite comfortable running other oils in the 10% range...I just want to put an oil like that in the sump one day and FEEL that lack of Noack loss as I drive, you know???
;^)
Originally Posted by BigShug681
You two are still arguing about this? Is it honestly that big of a deal?
Like Hound Dog Taylor said to his drummer when the latter fell asleep during a conversation on a long drive between gigs...
"Wake up and argue!!"
;^)
You two are still arguing about this? Is it honestly that big of a deal?
Like Hound Dog Taylor said to his drummer when the latter fell asleep during a conversation on a long drive between gigs...
"Wake up and argue!!"
;^)
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by buster
Once again, ask Amsoil to provide the SA level of the SS oils, then look at what GM d1G2 requires. Their email means nothing to me.
You ask, you want to know, their e-mail suffices for me.
Then you should email Nick Amey back and tell him the data sheet posted to their website is incorrect and needs to be changed.
Originally Posted by buster
Once again, ask Amsoil to provide the SA level of the SS oils, then look at what GM d1G2 requires. Their email means nothing to me.
You ask, you want to know, their e-mail suffices for me.
Then you should email Nick Amey back and tell him the data sheet posted to their website is incorrect and needs to be changed.
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by PimTac
I don't use Amsoil nor do I reject it. It's a good oil. It's just not in my budget.
LOL, in spite of StevieC's assertions about my ego and amsoil...if ACD was available here, even WITH it's old 3.4 HTHS, and at comparable price to M1, there's be nothing else n my shed.
Refuting Amsoil's B$ doesn't make their product bad, or me a "hater" (some fanbois, like with RP like the labels).
I am still very tempted to try SS 5W30. The SS 10W30 would be worth trying in the summer, but they don't come out and say anything about LSPI for it directly...I would highly suspect that its add pack it quite similar to the 5W30's, though (and Amsoil says the 5W30 passed the d1G2 LSPI test). The Noack loss for that 10W30 is pretty insanely low at around 4%, although I am quite comfortable running other oils in the 10% range...I just want to put an oil like that in the sump one day and FEEL that lack of Noack loss as I drive, you know???
;^)
I believe amsoil said that the OE, XL and SS lines experienced 0 LSPI events during independent testing. I run SS in my 2.0 ecoboost and have had no issues FWIW
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by PimTac
I don't use Amsoil nor do I reject it. It's a good oil. It's just not in my budget.
LOL, in spite of StevieC's assertions about my ego and amsoil...if ACD was available here, even WITH it's old 3.4 HTHS, and at comparable price to M1, there's be nothing else n my shed.
Refuting Amsoil's B$ doesn't make their product bad, or me a "hater" (some fanbois, like with RP like the labels).
I am still very tempted to try SS 5W30. The SS 10W30 would be worth trying in the summer, but they don't come out and say anything about LSPI for it directly...I would highly suspect that its add pack it quite similar to the 5W30's, though (and Amsoil says the 5W30 passed the d1G2 LSPI test). The Noack loss for that 10W30 is pretty insanely low at around 4%, although I am quite comfortable running other oils in the 10% range...I just want to put an oil like that in the sump one day and FEEL that lack of Noack loss as I drive, you know???
;^)
I believe amsoil said that the OE, XL and SS lines experienced 0 LSPI events during independent testing. I run SS in my 2.0 ecoboost and have had no issues FWIW
Originally Posted by parshisa
SA in the re-formulated SS line is not through the roof - 1.05% which is not that much higher than the limit of 1%. and only 0.1% higher than M1.
I'm not sure what the comparison to the ExxonMobil product is for, there are multiple other products you can also compare against. But your number does reinforce the Amsoil data sheet in showing it does not meet the requirement and goes against the Amsoil email saying it does.
SA in the re-formulated SS line is not through the roof - 1.05% which is not that much higher than the limit of 1%. and only 0.1% higher than M1.
I'm not sure what the comparison to the ExxonMobil product is for, there are multiple other products you can also compare against. But your number does reinforce the Amsoil data sheet in showing it does not meet the requirement and goes against the Amsoil email saying it does.
The reason I refereed to M1 is because I looked at their new SUV oil spec sheet and that number was on there (if I remember correctly). I'm not sure who else posts this number on their spec sheets.
Anyhow, what really doesn't make sense to me, is why people are so turned on how the product is being marketed and could care less about its performance. I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I go on here is to gain some knowledge and share the experience. But all I'm seeing lately is a bunch of drama and bashing on specific products/individuals. I guess BITOG is following social media trends (Facebook, IG etc) which are full of drama and bs.
Very disheartening
Anyhow, what really doesn't make sense to me, is why people are so turned on how the product is being marketed and could care less about its performance. I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I go on here is to gain some knowledge and share the experience. But all I'm seeing lately is a bunch of drama and bashing on specific products/individuals. I guess BITOG is following social media trends (Facebook, IG etc) which are full of drama and bs.
Very disheartening
Mobil 1 SA - .8 Mobil doesn't have the luxury of being able to produce non approved d1G2 oils.
Amsoil has chosen to go above this, and that's totally fine. The point I was making is that is the reason (as stated on their data sheets) as to why they do not officially meet d1G2. They could make the argument that they don't want to pay for it, but even if they did it would not pass being the SA level exceeds d1G2. End of story.
Amsoil has chosen to go above this, and that's totally fine. The point I was making is that is the reason (as stated on their data sheets) as to why they do not officially meet d1G2. They could make the argument that they don't want to pay for it, but even if they did it would not pass being the SA level exceeds d1G2. End of story.
Originally Posted by parshisa
The reason I refereed to M1 is because I looked at their new SUV oil spec sheet and that number was on there (if I remember correctly). I'm not sure who else posts this number on their spec sheets.
Anyhow, what really doesn't make sense to me, is why people are so turned on how the product is being marketed and could care less about its performance. I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I go on here is to gain some knowledge and share the experience. But all I'm seeing lately is a bunch of drama and bashing on specific products/individuals. I guess BITOG is following social media trends (Facebook, IG etc) which are full of drama and bs.
Very disheartening
What measure of performance is there except standards and certifications? Is there some performance parameter I can look at while using the product that would tell me whether it meets the d1G2 certification?
What I find very disheartening is that some individuals are not interested in facts, but would rather sweep the facts under the rug in favor of a certain brand they wish to promote or personally believe in. That is the actual drama and "bs". They are the ones going on feeling and mirror the social media trends which I agree tend to eschew facts in favor of drama.
The reason I refereed to M1 is because I looked at their new SUV oil spec sheet and that number was on there (if I remember correctly). I'm not sure who else posts this number on their spec sheets.
Anyhow, what really doesn't make sense to me, is why people are so turned on how the product is being marketed and could care less about its performance. I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I go on here is to gain some knowledge and share the experience. But all I'm seeing lately is a bunch of drama and bashing on specific products/individuals. I guess BITOG is following social media trends (Facebook, IG etc) which are full of drama and bs.
Very disheartening
What measure of performance is there except standards and certifications? Is there some performance parameter I can look at while using the product that would tell me whether it meets the d1G2 certification?
What I find very disheartening is that some individuals are not interested in facts, but would rather sweep the facts under the rug in favor of a certain brand they wish to promote or personally believe in. That is the actual drama and "bs". They are the ones going on feeling and mirror the social media trends which I agree tend to eschew facts in favor of drama.
What I find very disheartening is that some individuals are not interested in facts, but would rather sweep the facts under the rug in favor of a certain brand they wish to promote or personally believe in. That is the actual drama and "bs".[/quote]
Agreed on this. I also have a feeling that those individuals, knowing exact feedback they will receive, start these treads just for fun of arguing.
What measure of performance is there except standards and certifications? Is there some performance parameter I can look at while using the product that would tell me whether it meets the d1G2 certification?[/quote]
If all we want to look at are the certifications or lack of thereof, then what is the point of this website in a first place? what's there to discuss?
Agreed on this. I also have a feeling that those individuals, knowing exact feedback they will receive, start these treads just for fun of arguing.
What measure of performance is there except standards and certifications? Is there some performance parameter I can look at while using the product that would tell me whether it meets the d1G2 certification?[/quote]
If all we want to look at are the certifications or lack of thereof, then what is the point of this website in a first place? what's there to discuss?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by madeej11
Ever wonder why Mobil doesn't make similar claims comparing their pcmo to Amsoil?
Why would Mobil, Shell, Valvoline or any of the other majors bother to compare their API approved and manufacturer certified products with a boutique on the merits of TBN retention?
Ever wonder why Mobil doesn't make similar claims comparing their pcmo to Amsoil?
Why would Mobil, Shell, Valvoline or any of the other majors bother to compare their API approved and manufacturer certified products with a boutique on the merits of TBN retention?
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by parshisa
The reason I refereed to M1 is because I looked at their new SUV oil spec sheet and that number was on there (if I remember correctly). I'm not sure who else posts this number on their spec sheets.
Anyhow, what really doesn't make sense to me, is why people are so turned on how the product is being marketed and could care less about its performance. I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I go on here is to gain some knowledge and share the experience. But all I'm seeing lately is a bunch of drama and bashing on specific products/individuals. I guess BITOG is following social media trends (Facebook, IG etc) which are full of drama and bs.
Very disheartening
What measure of performance is there except standards and certifications? Is there some performance parameter I can look at while using the product that would tell me whether it meets the d1G2 certification?
What I find very disheartening is that some individuals are not interested in facts, but would rather sweep the facts under the rug in favor of a certain brand they wish to promote or personally believe in. That is the actual drama and "bs". They are the ones going on feeling and mirror the social media trends which I agree tend to eschew facts in favor of drama.
Not the case, I was an M1 user in the past and would return to M1 if the pricing was better up here and I didn't have to hunt for sales and find whatever is left over or physically have to maybe drive to 2 or 3 retailers because the others are out of product. I only use Amsoil because of the convenience and past experience with it in my Santa Fe. Having to crawl under the car less often with longer drain intervals and being shipped right to my door always at the same price and not having to keep a stash is what I like. (Also I'm not paying for it at the moment, my current work place does).
Further it's the real world performance which I have seen first hand that sells it to me, not some "meets minimum specifications" API license of approval on some other bottle of oil. This isn't dollar store oil, so there is no need to be concerned. And yes I have used Redline in the past as well when it was all the rage here to give that a shot. Their annoying quart packaging bugged me and I couldn't find it in the gallon size so I left that brand. It was also more than my Amsoil from where I was getting it.
API licensing is just that it meets a minimum standard. Then can be and is better out there. Otherwise there would be no reason to use one brand over another. Eg: M1, Sopus, Insert-brand-here.
Originally Posted by parshisa
The reason I refereed to M1 is because I looked at their new SUV oil spec sheet and that number was on there (if I remember correctly). I'm not sure who else posts this number on their spec sheets.
Anyhow, what really doesn't make sense to me, is why people are so turned on how the product is being marketed and could care less about its performance. I can't speak for everyone, but the reason I go on here is to gain some knowledge and share the experience. But all I'm seeing lately is a bunch of drama and bashing on specific products/individuals. I guess BITOG is following social media trends (Facebook, IG etc) which are full of drama and bs.
Very disheartening
What measure of performance is there except standards and certifications? Is there some performance parameter I can look at while using the product that would tell me whether it meets the d1G2 certification?
What I find very disheartening is that some individuals are not interested in facts, but would rather sweep the facts under the rug in favor of a certain brand they wish to promote or personally believe in. That is the actual drama and "bs". They are the ones going on feeling and mirror the social media trends which I agree tend to eschew facts in favor of drama.
Not the case, I was an M1 user in the past and would return to M1 if the pricing was better up here and I didn't have to hunt for sales and find whatever is left over or physically have to maybe drive to 2 or 3 retailers because the others are out of product. I only use Amsoil because of the convenience and past experience with it in my Santa Fe. Having to crawl under the car less often with longer drain intervals and being shipped right to my door always at the same price and not having to keep a stash is what I like. (Also I'm not paying for it at the moment, my current work place does).
Further it's the real world performance which I have seen first hand that sells it to me, not some "meets minimum specifications" API license of approval on some other bottle of oil. This isn't dollar store oil, so there is no need to be concerned. And yes I have used Redline in the past as well when it was all the rage here to give that a shot. Their annoying quart packaging bugged me and I couldn't find it in the gallon size so I left that brand. It was also more than my Amsoil from where I was getting it.
API licensing is just that it meets a minimum standard. Then can be and is better out there. Otherwise there would be no reason to use one brand over another. Eg: M1, Sopus, Insert-brand-here.
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by madeej11
Ever wonder why Mobil doesn't make similar claims comparing their pcmo to Amsoil?
Why would Mobil, Shell, Valvoline or any of the other majors bother to compare their API approved and manufacturer certified products with a boutique on the merits of TBN retention?
True, and odds are Mobil and/or Shell is supplying Amsoil with some major component used to make Amsoil's finished product. Does anyone think they're supplying them with something better than they would use themselves? While Amsoil is a fine product I doubt it is as great as many claim it to be.
Originally Posted by madeej11
Ever wonder why Mobil doesn't make similar claims comparing their pcmo to Amsoil?
Why would Mobil, Shell, Valvoline or any of the other majors bother to compare their API approved and manufacturer certified products with a boutique on the merits of TBN retention?
True, and odds are Mobil and/or Shell is supplying Amsoil with some major component used to make Amsoil's finished product. Does anyone think they're supplying them with something better than they would use themselves? While Amsoil is a fine product I doubt it is as great as many claim it to be.
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by madeej11
Ever wonder why Mobil doesn't make similar claims comparing their pcmo to Amsoil?
Why would Mobil, Shell, Valvoline or any of the other majors bother to compare their API approved and manufacturer certified products with a boutique on the merits of TBN retention?
The other answer is that comparisons are made against things that matter, not against the insignificant. There are probably another 100 insignificant brands they also don't compare against.
Originally Posted by madeej11
Ever wonder why Mobil doesn't make similar claims comparing their pcmo to Amsoil?
Why would Mobil, Shell, Valvoline or any of the other majors bother to compare their API approved and manufacturer certified products with a boutique on the merits of TBN retention?
The other answer is that comparisons are made against things that matter, not against the insignificant. There are probably another 100 insignificant brands they also don't compare against.
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