AMSOIL no longer pursuing Euro OEM approvals

[The Lube Guy]

I don't care about approvals. I want to know in what way the oil is different.

These lubricants are more expensive to formulate, and provide additional protection and extend the drain intervals. That's what's different about lubricants which conform to stricter ACEA and European blending requirements.

 

[kschachn]

The focus here is on the base oil composition rather than the additive package. Certain OEM approvals require the use of Group III base oils, whereas AMSOIL, for example, prefers to utilize PAO or GTL. Regarding the modification of additive packages, suppliers provide blending guides that detail how these packages can be top-treated. It's analogous to assembling Lego, but with intricate chemical compounds. This process should not be a cause for concern.

I've seen this from Infineum for example, where they sell Trimer Moly separately for certain additive packages, and leave it up to the blender if they choose to add it. In this case, it's for additional fuel efficiency in certain lower viscosity motor oils.

Which ones and how do they do that? They limit the VI or something?

 

[MalibuRam65]

This was announced in October of 2023, but I didn't see it until now:
View attachment 222556

I am going to assume they studied how much they spent on being licensed vs how much it increased sales (I assume it barely moved the needle) and decided to abandon it in favour of greater flexibility in formulating the products.

You might have to check out TriaxLubricants for a quality PAO euro spec oil

 

[dnewton3]

I've had to delete several posts; knock off the rude/trolling comments please.

 

[edyvw]

Something a wisely managed blender like Amsoil won’t say, but I think may be an influence here; “Several European car manufacturers have committed to ending further development of ICE cars in favor of electric cars. European car manufacturers have signaled they will end ICE production by 2030, 2033 (Audi), or 2035 (VW). Therefore, with a declining market, it no longer makes financial sense to continue to seek approvals for engines that are no longer going to be produced.”

BMW said they are keeping ICE at least until 2050.
The climate in EU is changing. Ban on ICE in 2035 won’t happen. This doesn’t have anything to do with it.

 

[edyvw]

The thing with approvals is that for example BMW has very stringent timing chain test on N20/26 engine that is known for timing chain issues.

 

[twX]

Another Newbie question: what's special about the "Euro" oil requirements? Are these oils truly different, or just some minor difference from API specs?

The ACEA Cx low-saps oil standards are very similar to API SP. They even now use the many of the same tests with the same limits, like those for sludge, varnish, valvetrain wear, and foaming. They use different tests for piston deposits and fuel economy. There are some oils that meet both standards.

The most notable differences are that the ACEA standards have slightly higher phosphorus limits, a lower Noack requirement, and they include a lot of diesel engine tests. However, most of the ACEA standards don't require LSPI or timing chain wear tests like API SP does. When ILSAC GF-7 oils are introduced next year, they'll have more stringent requirements than ACEA in some other areas as well.

 

[Four Rings]

BMW said they are keeping ICE at least until 2050.
The climate in EU is changing. Ban on ICE in 2035 won’t happen. This doesn’t have anything to do with it.

Glad to read your post.

However as of today, FIAT is still committed to 2030, Audi to 2033 and VW 2035.

 

[edyvw]

Glad to read your post.

However as of today, FIAT is still committed to 2030, Audi to 2033 and VW 2035.

Yes, and same FIAT and VW are lobbying for deadline to be scrapped and for market to decide.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Yes, and same FIAT and VW are lobbying for deadline to be scrapped and for market to decide.

Makes lot of sense. Not only for market to decide. I am seeing stories that there are other alternatives being developed such as a sort of "super Hybrid" or similar mulit fuel vehicles. Lots of stuff in the works at Toyota and Asia around these things. Meantime we still need (and will need for a while longer) the best oils those companies can produce.

 

[edyvw]

Makes lot of sense. Not only for market to decide. I am seeing stories that there are other alternatives being developed such as a sort of "super Hybrid" or similar mulit fuel vehicles. Lots of stuff in the works at Toyota and Asia around these things. Meantime we still need (and will need for a while longer) the best oils those companies can produce.

The problem with EU is twofold, and I will try to be short:
1. The EU itself is a supra-state, with a parliament that has and does not have real power. In this case, it has. The countries that worry about climate change the most and are affected by one do vote in favor of bans, but their car industry is not strong at all. Then you have greens from Germany, etc., which have been on power trips since INF and the anti-nuclear movement, which was boosted by KGB in the 70s. There is very strong evidence that investing in the anti-nuclear movement was KGB's most successful operation.
2. That is pushed now by propaganda and disinformation in light of the current geopolitical situation. Bans on ICE really, really favor China and disfavor the EU. More economic problems in EU, less willingness to help Ukraine etc.

But, numbers don't lie, and many are waking up realizing that only thing they will truly achieve is decimating car and supplier industry, and emission benefits will be minimal considering pollution in China and India.

 

[OVERKILL]

You might have to check out TriaxLubricants for a quality PAO euro spec oil

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

The ACEA Cx low-saps oil standards are very similar to API SP. They even now use the many of the same tests with the same limits, like those for sludge, varnish, valvetrain wear, and foaming. They use different tests for piston deposits and fuel economy. There are some oils that meet both standards.

The most notable differences are that the ACEA standards have slightly higher phosphorus limits, a lower Noack requirement, and they include a lot of diesel engine tests. However, most of the ACEA standards don't require LSPI or timing chain wear tests like API SP does. When ILSAC GF-7 oils are introduced next year, they'll have more stringent requirements than ACEA in some other areas as well.

The ACEA contains categories. ACEA C6 contains the new engine tests from SP.

Euro automakers layer their own engine specific tests such as LSPI and Chainwear on top of ACEA

 

[wemay]

Disqualify other manufacturers for not having approvals but AMSOIL gets a pass. Right.

In no way a statement about AMSOIL's quality, we know it's top notch, more so about some posts here.

I guess it's all about trusting your favorite lube company. I go through this mental gymnastics with RP.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Pennzoil has been “ meeting the requirements of” the different categories without bothering to pay for the certification for many years.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Another Newbie question: what's special about the "Euro" oil requirements? Are these oils truly different, or just some minor difference from API specs?

The euro approvals typically contain tests results which have been performed on an engine of the manufacturer. Ex, BMW chain wear test is conducted on the current BMW reference engine.

The requirements of these test result in slightly different addpacks and/or base oil blends when compared to API.

 

[The Lube Guy]

Which ones and how do they do that? They limit the VI or something?

I don't understand the question, so I'd rather ask, before I give you the wrong answer.

Disqualify other manufacturers for not having approvals but AMSOIL gets a pass. Right.

Please name the disqualified manufacturers.

 

[edyvw]

Pennzoil has been “ meeting the requirements of” the different categories without bothering to pay for the certification for many years.

Pennzoil is approved. That is their choice of language.

 

[edyvw]

The euro approvals typically contain tests results which have been performed on an engine of the manufacturer. Ex, BMW chain wear test is conducted on the current BMW reference engine.

The requirements of these test result in slightly different addpacks and/or base oil blends when compared to API.

There are other parameters. Deposit, oxidation (BMW is most stringent) Porsche track requirements, then specific engine tests, Noack (MB 229.5X is max 10%, API is I think 15%) etc.

 

[Foxtrot08]

Meets / exceeds requirements strikes again.

At the end of the day, it’s too expensive to get every base oil and every additive pack approved for every possible formulation.

So I don’t blame amsoil. Approvals are expensive. When you know it’s going to meet XYZ specs, why spend a few hundred thousand dollars doing the engine testing and everything else required?