amsoil for diesels
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Here is a link with lots of uoa's on different oils in different Ford Power Stroke engines, there are engines switching to and form different oils and the results are interesting. http://members.aol.com/fmtrvt/OilStudy/current.pdf
[ June 15, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Steve S ]
[ June 15, 2003, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Steve S ]
10w40 isn't wht recommended oil for diesels from Amsoil. Try the 15w40 or the 5w30 series 3000.
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Amsoil certainly seems to think that their 10/40 is a diesel oil. They have in bold letters on the bottle that it exceeds API service CI-4 plus they have printed on the back of their package that it is 'recommended' for the following application:
DB 228.2, 228.3, VW 505.00, Cummins CES2006, CES20077, Mack EO-M+, Detroit Diesel 7SE270, MTU type 2, MAN 271, M3275, Scania LDF.
It also lists other recommendations but these are the ones that I know are diesel ratings.
If AMSOIL doesn't intend their 10/40 to be used in this application then why is it 'recommended' for such? It also has written on the package that it is "EXCELLENT FOR USE IN GASOLINE OR DIESEL ENGINES..blah, blah, blah" and "SPECIALLY FORMULATED FOR GASOLINE AND DIESEL ENGINE."
I don't currently have a bottle of their 15/40 or the S3000 5W-30 in front of me but I don't believe that they meet any other diesel ratings than the 10/40.
Well then somebody needs to update their websites. That info comes straight from Amsoil and Mobil.
Delvac-1 NOACK = 13%
Amsoil Series 3000 5w-30 NOACK = 8.6%
Amsoil 10w-40 NOACK = 7%
Amsoil 15w-40 NOACK = 6.7%
4.4% difference between D1 and 5w-30.
6% difference between D1 and 10w-40.
6.3% difference between D1 and 15w-40.
I believe these are the OLD specs, when D1 was only CH-4 rated and before Mobil changed the formula to meet API CI-4 ratings.
Here are the NEW specs for CI-4 D1.
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40ºC = 102
cSt @ 100ºC = 14.8
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 = 151
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 = 1.35
Total Base #, mg KOH/g, ASTM D 2896 = 12
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -45 (-47F / -45C)
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 226 (439F / 226C)
Density @ 15ºC kg/l, ASTM D 4052 = 0.854
If you don't believe me, go see for yourself.
http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXE2CVLMOMobilDelvac1_5W-40.asp
Fowvay,
Both the Series 3000 and 15w-40 are both better HD diesel oils than the 10w-40. The 15w-40 meets the Mack EON+, DHD-1 specifications that the 10w-40 does not. I certainly don't see an advantage of running the 10w-40 over the 15w-40 down in Georgia.
The Series 3000 is Amsoils most advanced diesel formulation, and the best choice for any passenger car diesel engine.
I admit the advertising is confusing ....
TooSlick
Both the Series 3000 and 15w-40 are both better HD diesel oils than the 10w-40. The 15w-40 meets the Mack EON+, DHD-1 specifications that the 10w-40 does not. I certainly don't see an advantage of running the 10w-40 over the 15w-40 down in Georgia.
The Series 3000 is Amsoils most advanced diesel formulation, and the best choice for any passenger car diesel engine.
I admit the advertising is confusing ....
TooSlick
http://www.amsoil.com/products/amo.html
Amsoil 10w-40 is CI-4 rated for diesels. And meets:
CUMMINS CES 20071, 20072, 20076
MACK EO-L, EO-M, EO-M+
CATERPILLAR TO-2, TO-3
If Amsoil 15w-40 is too thick for you, and Series 3000 5w-30 too expensive for you, choose 10w-40.
So what happend then is when Mobil met the new CI-4 API, they had to lower the specs a bit? If thats the case, it's really not a fair apples to apples comparison unless Amsoil meets it as well. Plus, do you really know if they are using as high of quality base stocks as Mobil is?
It's a fair comparison between two Group 4 diesel oils. API certification means nothing. Oil specs and performance are what count.
Amsoil buys their Group 4 basestocks from Exxon-Mobil. The same basestocks that are used in D1. The difference is the additive package. Amsoil uses a custom package manufactured by Lubrizol ( www.lubrizol.com ) the world leader in additive manufacturing for fuels and oils.
I think it has some relevance, but I agree, it limits the performance to some degree. The old specs were better, but I don't think the new D1 is any worse off. Those specs are very close and like I said they could be using even higher quality base stocks then before.
Lubrizol seems to be an excellent company. Does anyone know if most of Amsoil's Group 4 lubes all use there additive packages? I've heard there are several suppliers.
Buster,
Texas TDI will claim to be an Amsoil "dealer", but quite honestly he hasn't got a clue about any of this stuff, and I'd basically ignore anything he says. In fact he is exactly the type of individual that tends to give Amsoil a bad image on forums like this and that reputable dealers work so hard to overcome.
Oil analysis results with the CI-4 version of Delvac 1 have been excellent, and I recommend it as an alternative to Amsoil all the time on the TDI forums. It's the best competitive product on the market, period.
This only goes to show why you shouldn't pick oil based on spec sheets. These typically show physical properties but not performance characteristics like shear stability, oxidation resistance, TBN retention, etc, which are much more important. To be fair however, within a given SAE grade, Noack volatility does correlate pretty well to oil consumption. So if that was a concern in a particular application, I would look for an oil with a very low evaporation rate.
Tooslick
Texas TDI will claim to be an Amsoil "dealer", but quite honestly he hasn't got a clue about any of this stuff, and I'd basically ignore anything he says. In fact he is exactly the type of individual that tends to give Amsoil a bad image on forums like this and that reputable dealers work so hard to overcome.
Oil analysis results with the CI-4 version of Delvac 1 have been excellent, and I recommend it as an alternative to Amsoil all the time on the TDI forums. It's the best competitive product on the market, period.
This only goes to show why you shouldn't pick oil based on spec sheets. These typically show physical properties but not performance characteristics like shear stability, oxidation resistance, TBN retention, etc, which are much more important. To be fair however, within a given SAE grade, Noack volatility does correlate pretty well to oil consumption. So if that was a concern in a particular application, I would look for an oil with a very low evaporation rate.
Tooslick
Correction...I am an Amsoil dealer, thank you. I pay my yearly dues just like you do.
I never said D1 wasn't a good oil. I simply said it wasn't the best oil.
Looks like you have a lot to learn about the sales business. Recommending Mobil oil to a potential customer when you're an Amsoil dealer makes about as much sence as a Ford saleman recommending Chevy's to a potential customer.
No, it means he is objective and reasonable about things and is one of the reasons why this site does so well. He has always recommended Mobil 1 for people not interested in the long drain aspect. So he is helping them. Ted knows his stuff and is always fair about things. He has stated before how silly the whole Amsoil/Mobil 1 debate is and how they cater to different markets. I will say from what I've seen, which is only what is on here and a few other sites, that Amsoil S3k is an incredible oil. I might use it down the road at some point when I get a new car. All of Amsoil's oils will be of high quality bc they only use the best components availble. I do get critical of certain aspects of Amsoil, but there is something to be said about all the major oils out there.
[ June 22, 2003, 09:13 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
LMAO ROFL!!
never said D1 wasn't a good oil. I simply said it wasn't the best oil.
Looks like you have a lot to learn about the sales business. Recommending Mobil oil to a potential customer when you're an Amsoil dealer makes about as much sence as a Ford saleman recommending Chevy's to a potential customer.
Actually TDI, You've got a lot to learn. Selling isn't always "pushing your product" but educating people and getting people to trust you. Not everyone needs a full synth or desires to use amsoil, so by listening to what others want, you'll actually find people will trust you more if you keep an open ear and mind. Oil sales isn't always like selling cars, unfortunatly many oil sales guys are like that and most don't trust them because of that.
Just because TS takes the time and answers questions objectively, just shows he's not out trying to skunk everyone into amsoil. He, like myself, like to share good valid info, not sales bs posted on web sites sales pages which you seem to constantly keep posting on here. That is meaningless for the most part and as he pointed out(and I can't believe you said it either TS considering what we went though
) That Technical Data sheets leave a lot to be desired as all you're looking at is a few select tests and basing your limited knowledge on those tests(mainly due to marketing by such company) as the only reason for using such an oil.
Like a good band, you need to hear or see how the whole band sounds not just what one guy sounds like, so too is oil, you must see the over all total affect on how the oil is blended with what. Many times oil companies will provide an excellent base oil but then not have a good balance on additives which work against each other. Point is, the real world analysis is giving many people, including myself, a better understanding on how these different oils work in a real engine under different adverse conditions and not on a test bench test.
I want to applaud the amsoil reps we have on here as I have seen all of them try and answer with integrity and honesty, trying not to be over zealous about amsoil itself. Thanks for the good work guys.
BTW, TS, I don't agree with yer statement about d1 being one of the best.. Ya keep forgetting about Schaeffers..!!
send ya to school and look how ya treat me
[ July 14, 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
Looks like you have a lot to learn about the sales business. Recommending Mobil oil to a potential customer when you're an Amsoil dealer makes about as much sence as a Ford saleman recommending Chevy's to a potential customer.
Actually TDI, You've got a lot to learn. Selling isn't always "pushing your product" but educating people and getting people to trust you. Not everyone needs a full synth or desires to use amsoil, so by listening to what others want, you'll actually find people will trust you more if you keep an open ear and mind. Oil sales isn't always like selling cars, unfortunatly many oil sales guys are like that and most don't trust them because of that.
Just because TS takes the time and answers questions objectively, just shows he's not out trying to skunk everyone into amsoil. He, like myself, like to share good valid info, not sales bs posted on web sites sales pages which you seem to constantly keep posting on here. That is meaningless for the most part and as he pointed out(and I can't believe you said it either TS considering what we went though
Like a good band, you need to hear or see how the whole band sounds not just what one guy sounds like, so too is oil, you must see the over all total affect on how the oil is blended with what. Many times oil companies will provide an excellent base oil but then not have a good balance on additives which work against each other. Point is, the real world analysis is giving many people, including myself, a better understanding on how these different oils work in a real engine under different adverse conditions and not on a test bench test.
I want to applaud the amsoil reps we have on here as I have seen all of them try and answer with integrity and honesty, trying not to be over zealous about amsoil itself. Thanks for the good work guys.
BTW, TS, I don't agree with yer statement about d1 being one of the best.. Ya keep forgetting about Schaeffers..!!
[ July 14, 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
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