I run Amsoil Universal ATF in my 2000 Taurus AX4N transmission. Having installed a B&M drain plug, I drop the pan and change the filter every 30,000 miles. Amsoil's Technical Dept. doesn't see any need to use an in-line filter. What are your thoughts?
Amsoil ATF and In-Line Transmission Filter
- Thread starter TxGreaseMonkey
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It may not be necessary to run an inline filter, it couldn't hurt. As long as the filter doesn't restrict the flow to or from the cooler, the worst that could happen is the filter doesn't have anything to pick out of the fluid, on the other hand it could help.
Patrick
Patrick
Inline filters help remove the debris that the trans sheds into the oil. The stock internal filter does almost nothing since the media is poor and small. Even small amounts of wear metals and grit in the oil can cause excessive wear and cause pressure switches and valves to malfunction. So the cleaner you keep the oil, the better.
I've installed Amsoil bypass filters on the transmissions in my fleet of taxis and my transmission problems have 100% disappeared.
I've installed Amsoil bypass filters on the transmissions in my fleet of taxis and my transmission problems have 100% disappeared.
I would install an inline cooler filter on the return side of the cooler after a transmission overhaul in case some debris still could come loose from cooler and go back to transmission. Otherwise, install it in the other line before the cooler to keep the cooler and transmission free of debris. Cleaning this fluid stream is actually not a bad idea, since a lot of the debris going through the cooler lines is generated in the torque converter. The converter has bearings and a clutch and when they wear, the debris goes directly to the cooler circuit and then back to the transmission to lubricate moving parts such as bearings and planetary gearsets, etc., which need CLEAN fluid to last a long time.
It really depends on how long you want to keep your car. It will help as noted and the only real downside is the cost, added complexity and increased opportunity for issues with the lines and connections.
I would think the filter before the cooler would be the way to go.
I would think the filter before the cooler would be the way to go.
I too have looked into the inline filters. Magnafine on this site has a nice one.
But I worry about it clogging and slowing down the flow, or not being able to handle the flow and filter at the same time. I know they have bypass capability too. But Why do I worry? I just changed the cooler lines on my Town and Country, and wow...that fluid really moves back and forth.
My Ford C-6 has just run on Amsoil its whole life and has a metal mesh trans filter...this original transmission has well over 300K on it.
As Pablo states...Less is Best...but I do like the idea of a spin on or bypass if you do lot's of miles or want to keep the oil working for many miles in between OCI's. But like you said, you have a drain plug and do filter changes every 30K..put an extra high power magnet in the pan and forget it. Simplify your life...
Hey,Pablo the inline trans filter companys only recomend the filter on the into the cooler line if a flush of the cooler has been done, otherwise they want it on the return to protect against return contamanation.
But I worry about it clogging and slowing down the flow, or not being able to handle the flow and filter at the same time. I know they have bypass capability too. But Why do I worry? I just changed the cooler lines on my Town and Country, and wow...that fluid really moves back and forth.
My Ford C-6 has just run on Amsoil its whole life and has a metal mesh trans filter...this original transmission has well over 300K on it.
As Pablo states...Less is Best...but I do like the idea of a spin on or bypass if you do lot's of miles or want to keep the oil working for many miles in between OCI's. But like you said, you have a drain plug and do filter changes every 30K..put an extra high power magnet in the pan and forget it. Simplify your life...
Hey,Pablo the inline trans filter companys only recomend the filter on the into the cooler line if a flush of the cooler has been done, otherwise they want it on the return to protect against return contamanation.
LCM makes sense - but I can't imagine why you wouldn't flush the cooler or why there would be a huge amount of crud in the cooler. I was thinking in terms of pressure and filtration.
I like the idea of an in-line filter, but my concerns are 1) Ford didn't install one in the first place on the transmission but they did on the power steering and 2) Amsoil, which is really into filtration, doesn't even offer in-line transmission filters. Does Amsoil know something or are they missing a marketing opportunity?
If you really want an inline filter for your Ford, they sell the Magnefine under the Ford name with a Ford part number for twice the price.
There's a TSB instructing dealerships to install it on all rebuilt transmissions/transaxles and it has the part number in it.
It's part number XC3Z-7B155-BA
The Motorcraft number for it is FT-167 and it is available from Rockauto.com for $32.79.
There's a TSB instructing dealerships to install it on all rebuilt transmissions/transaxles and it has the part number in it.
It's part number XC3Z-7B155-BA
The Motorcraft number for it is FT-167 and it is available from Rockauto.com for $32.79.
The only way to void a warranty is if you add something that directly causes a specific failure.
Use the Magnefine, Permacool, or other brand ATF filter.
If you are worried about "fluid flow", do this test.
Disconnect ATF line, aim it into a bucket, start vehicle and TIME how long it takes to fill the bucket up to a certainlevel(1 or 2 quart line).
Do the same with an ATF filter spliced inline.
Once you verified that the time is pretty close, you can quit worrying.
Use the Magnefine, Permacool, or other brand ATF filter.
If you are worried about "fluid flow", do this test.
Disconnect ATF line, aim it into a bucket, start vehicle and TIME how long it takes to fill the bucket up to a certainlevel(1 or 2 quart line).
Do the same with an ATF filter spliced inline.
Once you verified that the time is pretty close, you can quit worrying.
Will adding a coller and magnefine filter to my "05 CR-V void my warranty? Has anyone else aded this set-up to their Hondas?
Glen
Glen
Thank you, Undummy. That is a very simple and clever way to determine flow rate and volume. I think I will post your response over at the Hondasuv.com site for the folks there.
Glen
Glen
Yes unDummy I too think that is a sweet idea. I was thinking about putting an Amsoil dual bypass filter mount inline before the cooler with a small manual valve to permit some amount of flow to pass through unfiltered because I don't know how much the filters will restrict flow. Now I can perform your simple test to find out! Thanks again!
-Louis
-Louis
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Louis - are you intending to use a DualGuard on your trans? ATF is relatively thin compare to motor oil ..but I'm pretty sure the return line on most transmissions are low pressure (low restriction return).
I'd really be interested in your findings on the timed test using this filter setup. If the flow is unencubered when cold (the trans pump has a relief valve too) ..the only issue that I can see is figuring out when to change (at least) one of the filters. It could be in service, depending on how big a BE filter that you use, for a very long time. You can't wait until both filters are saturated ..so you'll be retiring at least one of them prematurely.
Post your results
I'd really be interested in your findings on the timed test using this filter setup. If the flow is unencubered when cold (the trans pump has a relief valve too) ..the only issue that I can see is figuring out when to change (at least) one of the filters. It could be in service, depending on how big a BE filter that you use, for a very long time. You can't wait until both filters are saturated ..so you'll be retiring at least one of them prematurely.
Post your results
Magnefine and Filtran inline ATF filters have a bypass if the media becomes too restrictive.
Gary, yep I do intend to use a DualGuard on the trans. I'm planning to put it inline before the ATF oil coolers. I plan to use that biggest BE filters that I can fit, which will probably end up being one BE-100 and one BE-90 although maybe just maybe I can squeeze two BE-110's in there - how cool would that be.
So anyway I was planning to use unDummy's time test to see if the two bypass elements (BE's) are able to handle the full flow without too much restriction. But I plan on having a small valve to allow some flow to go by unfiltered in case flow is restricted too much (was planning on a small ball valve-hopefully ball valves are useful for throttling flow and not just on/off). Not sure if a bit of restriction is a problem, probably not, I looked at the transmission fluid flow diagram and it looked like the other pressure circuits were kind of separate from the cooler flow.
I would almost plan to never change the filters because I really don't know how much stuff could possibly get in there. This trans (2000 Subaru Outback) has like a small lawnmower type oil filter on the side of it at the cooler line outlet of the trans which says never needs to be replaced. I changed it anyway and chopped the old one open, had a little bit of black stuff in it, but didn't really see any metal shavings which would be the primary thing I would expect to see. So the filter on the trans would catch the metal shavings, I guess at least the ones big enough for the filter to catch.
Anyway Gary I'll post the results of the flow tests when I do the install, might be a couple of months before I get to it, hopefully it will be before summer because I have a Perma Cool aux cooler to put in too. Actually when I replaced the fluid I did that method of pulling one of the hoses off the cooler and running the engine a couple of times to drain the old fluid from the torque converter, at idle I think I was getting a gallon every 30 seconds maybe, so maybe 2 gpm, but I'll actually time it when I do this test.
I bought a bunch of strong 4" dia. neo donut magnets from allectronics for pretty cheap so I stick them on all my fluid filters.
-Louis
So anyway I was planning to use unDummy's time test to see if the two bypass elements (BE's) are able to handle the full flow without too much restriction. But I plan on having a small valve to allow some flow to go by unfiltered in case flow is restricted too much (was planning on a small ball valve-hopefully ball valves are useful for throttling flow and not just on/off). Not sure if a bit of restriction is a problem, probably not, I looked at the transmission fluid flow diagram and it looked like the other pressure circuits were kind of separate from the cooler flow.
I would almost plan to never change the filters because I really don't know how much stuff could possibly get in there. This trans (2000 Subaru Outback) has like a small lawnmower type oil filter on the side of it at the cooler line outlet of the trans which says never needs to be replaced. I changed it anyway and chopped the old one open, had a little bit of black stuff in it, but didn't really see any metal shavings which would be the primary thing I would expect to see. So the filter on the trans would catch the metal shavings, I guess at least the ones big enough for the filter to catch.
Anyway Gary I'll post the results of the flow tests when I do the install, might be a couple of months before I get to it, hopefully it will be before summer because I have a Perma Cool aux cooler to put in too. Actually when I replaced the fluid I did that method of pulling one of the hoses off the cooler and running the engine a couple of times to drain the old fluid from the torque converter, at idle I think I was getting a gallon every 30 seconds maybe, so maybe 2 gpm, but I'll actually time it when I do this test.
I bought a bunch of strong 4" dia. neo donut magnets from allectronics for pretty cheap so I stick them on all my fluid filters.
-Louis
Porcupine73, ball valves are basically on/off valves, they are very difficult to use as throttles, especially across large variances in the characteristics of a liquid. A needle valve is generally used for flow control, but probably would be terribly expensive. A spring and ball pressure bypass would probably be the best safeguard if you fear filter blockage. I used to sell this stuff many years ago, but I've probably forgotten more than I knew to begin with.
How much goop do you expect to be in your ATX? Don't the filters themselves have a pressure bypass?
Don't misunderstand, I'm not criticizing, but this seems like serious overkill. Edumicate me. Maybe I don't understand the application.
How much goop do you expect to be in your ATX? Don't the filters themselves have a pressure bypass?
Don't misunderstand, I'm not criticizing, but this seems like serious overkill. Edumicate me. Maybe I don't understand the application.
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Well, at least the Dual Guard doesn't have the .029 restrictor that the older single mount does. I actually think you'll be okay.
C.S. is correct. Ball valves are hard to regulate. Valves in general are not linear flow devices. You approach 100% flow anywhere from 40-55% open. They just don't have a reactive component to them. Even if you get the choke correct for cold operation (start up) it will be way wide when hot. Luckily, ATF is real thin to begin with and you may not even need a bypass.
I've tried to find cheap pressure regulators ..but they really don't exist in any economical configuration that I've run into. You run into temp issues with some that are affordable. The actual design of what you need is very simple ..but I just don't see any that are cheap and affordable ...or for that matter, available. You only need a spring seated ball with adjustable tension. You would then dial in your desired bypass setting.
One system/technique that is cheap and viable ..but somewhat of a waste of the utility of the device is a cheap hydraulic mount that's avaiable from McMaster-Carr.
The whole setup, w/filter, is $24 before shipping ..and it has a 15psi bypass in the head. You would then just cut a gasket and glue it over the inlet holes of the included spin-on ..and voila~! you've got a cheap 15psi bypass valve, albeit rather bulky for what it needs to do. I guess you could just order a 3um absolute filter and just let it clog up. I don't know how long that would take
(no, this won't last anywhere near as long as a BE filter and costs almost as much).
If you were handy with tig/mig that may a way to make it more compact.
I do admire your overkill approach to this.
C.S. is correct. Ball valves are hard to regulate. Valves in general are not linear flow devices. You approach 100% flow anywhere from 40-55% open. They just don't have a reactive component to them. Even if you get the choke correct for cold operation (start up) it will be way wide when hot. Luckily, ATF is real thin to begin with and you may not even need a bypass.
I've tried to find cheap pressure regulators ..but they really don't exist in any economical configuration that I've run into. You run into temp issues with some that are affordable. The actual design of what you need is very simple ..but I just don't see any that are cheap and affordable ...or for that matter, available. You only need a spring seated ball with adjustable tension. You would then dial in your desired bypass setting.
One system/technique that is cheap and viable ..but somewhat of a waste of the utility of the device is a cheap hydraulic mount that's avaiable from McMaster-Carr.
The whole setup, w/filter, is $24 before shipping ..and it has a 15psi bypass in the head. You would then just cut a gasket and glue it over the inlet holes of the included spin-on ..and voila~! you've got a cheap 15psi bypass valve, albeit rather bulky for what it needs to do. I guess you could just order a 3um absolute filter and just let it clog up. I don't know how long that would take
If you were handy with tig/mig that may a way to make it more compact.
I do admire your overkill approach to this.
Gary, C.S., thanks for the valve info. Maybe a valve isn't the way to go. I might try to find some sort of regular or back pressure regulator. I'll check out the McMaster stuff. I don't expect to find much goop at all in the filters, maybe just very fine metal particles. C.S. the bypass filters I don't think have a bypass valve in them like full flow filters normally do.
Yes this is probably way overkill but in my mind that was kind of the idea. I want to put 300k mi on this car, it has 100k on it now, but it is a 96 (Subaru Legacy) so it's already 10 years old and I only drive it maybe 12k mi per year, so that would take another 17 years wow the car would be a classic by then. Maybe if I save up enough money I can buy new or very slightly used and put all this equipment to good use! thanks!
-Louis
Yes this is probably way overkill but in my mind that was kind of the idea. I want to put 300k mi on this car, it has 100k on it now, but it is a 96 (Subaru Legacy) so it's already 10 years old and I only drive it maybe 12k mi per year, so that would take another 17 years wow the car would be a classic by then. Maybe if I save up enough money I can buy new or very slightly used and put all this equipment to good use! thanks!
-Louis
Trannsmissions naturally shed parts of their clutches (discs), but thats what the screen is for and it is quite large as compared to an in-line filter on quarter inch tubing. Just changing out 4 or 6 QTS. of transmission fluid anually should make your transmission last a lifetime. The only exeption I would make would be a commercial plow operator trying to push a foot of wet snow across a parking lot, then an anual complete drain & filter would be an absolute must. For you Bitogers in warmer climes that tow things, an investment in a trannsmission cooler , which is easy to install, would be money better spent.
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