American police cars -- why so big?

[JHZR2]

Inmy experience, having owned two MB diesels, MB vehicles are designed for ease of service, simplicity of service, and the components are designed well to last a LONG time.

If you know where to shop, you can get good parts, like bosch alternators, pagid yellow box pads, etc. for very reasonable prices.

There would be a large stink if a non US-made vehicle was a government owned and heavily used primary use vehicle like a police car.

now, Id takea $28k v-8 police package MB in a second!

JMH

 

[kingrob]

Greetings, redmex.

Speaking of import police cars in America, my city for years has used an Enzo Ferrari as a high speed pursuit vehicle. It was seized in a drug raid and apparently was owned by a big time dope dealer. The city took it and outfitted it with lights, a roll bar, and painted it with a "D.A.R.E." program scheme. It makes the rounds at schools and charity functions and doesn't see serious use unless it's called in for by officers chasing down a particularly hard to catch suspect.

 

[TheTanSedan]

The OLDS diesel was a dog, didn't have the power to pull your hat off your head. The best cop cars from 1968 to 1989 were the CHRYSLER products, they blew the Ford and GM's into the weeds. The 318-4V Fury/Diplomat was every year but the last two faster than any 305 or 350 Chevy.
It also outhandled and outbraked it.

By 1987 Chevy finally got the Caprice into a decent running machine, and Chrysler was getting out of the RWD business altogether. From about 1989 to 1996 the Caprice was the one. After that it is the Crown Vic.

Cops need reliable, easy-to-maintain cars, and the fleet RWD fits the package like no front driver can. The SUVs are a mistake -- there've been lots of wrecks with them and the operational guidelines are quite restricted over the Vics.

The baddest of them all was the DODGE "Police Pursuit" Package aimed at the highway patrol crowd from 1968 - 1978. The first two years of production (as in photo above, that's a '68 Polara) were capable performers. The MICHIGAN STATE POLICE trials in 1969 found a '69 Polara turning a 14.1 quarter at 107 mph . . . and that's with two beefy cops with full service rigs and 400-lbs in the trunk. There's been nothing like it since. Unfortunately, the TEXAS HIGHWAY PATROL found that a fleet average of 6-7 mpg was tough to live with. But they didn't give them up.

Arguably, the best all-around cop car ever was the Los Angeles spec PLYMOUTH Belvedere of 1969 or so (TV; remember "Adam 12"?). 325 HP 383-cid B-Block Wedge with 425 TQ. A Roadrunner with a funny paint package, BUT, XHD brakes, better suspension and tight tuning.

I miss the old cars. There was nothing so intimidating as walking out of a Dairy Queen on the Texas plains, expecting to make time up the road . . . and there was the higher-rpm cammed idle of a THP DODGE Polara Pursuit with the two-tone paint, as the patrolman finished paperwork in the lot. It was enough to make you mind manners for some hours to come. There was nothing out there to outrun it except maybe a HEMI 'Cuda or a triple-carb 427 Vette. But they'd run out of gas before too long. TEXAS HIGHWAY patrolmen are a law unto themselves, but state decree. The POLARA enabled them to catch 'em all, and go on to the next thing.

Los Angeles was a leader in pursuit technology and training. For a freeway interceptor performance was to BEGIN at 70 mph topping out at over 120 (the Polaras would run past 130; have heard 140 from former troopers), and the time and distance of the pursuit radically dropped in practice as hypothetically projected.

I hope they'll come back someday.

 

[kingrob]

quote:

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Los Angeles was a leader in pursuit technology and training. For a freeway interceptor performance was to BEGIN at 70 mph topping out at over 120 (the Polaras would run past 130; have heard 140 from former troopers), and the time and distance of the pursuit radically dropped in practice as hypothetically projected.

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I can vouch for that. I regularly buried the needle on my '74 Highway Patrol model Gran Fury. It would click past 140. Those cars (the 74-76 Ryl Monacos and Gran Furys with the HP 440) were the best IMO police cars ever put together. The engines were literally bulletproof, the suspension and transmission were unbeatable, and it could outrun anything on the road. My Fury was the perfect sleeper, so many times some loser would try to outgun me with a hopped up Mustang or Camaro and would end up waylaid on the roadside. The weak points on these cars, though were the Carbeurators and ignition systems, I had a lot of problems with them. To this day that fury was the best riding car I've ever owned. They're few and far between now, every once in a while I see one done up like the Bluesmobile, or one with the 318 or 360. But the 440 was tops, if you didn't mind the 6mpg around town. The 440 had an unmistakable exhaust tone, very intimidating. People often asked me if I was running dual flowmasters, they couldn't believe a factory dual exhaust could sound that ballsy.

Over the years I've owned many former police cars (Crown Vics, Caprices, an Intrepid, even a Granada) but none were ever on par with the late '60's to mid 70's Mopars.

 

[kingrob]

quote:

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I hope they'll come back someday.

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Tan Sedan, Detroit will never be able to build a car like those again. They were dinosaurs even then, compare the gas mileage/output of the other cop cars available at the time. When I bought mine they were a dying breed, and by 1980 you rarely saw any of the pre-77's on the road anymore. I know they were reliable cars that suffered from almost TOO MUCH power. This is what leads me to believe many found an early,unjust grave at the junkyard simply due to the mpg it got. Think about it, if you were trying to manage a fleet and the old Fury in the corner was sucking up twice as much gas as the new LTD's and Impala's you'd think twice about rebuilding the transmission or fixing a head gasket,etc. The world had turned and Chrysler tried desperately to play catch up (ie St. Regis) but the writing was on the wall.

However, if they were able to revive the Monaco/Polara/Fury nameplate and start rebadging some stripped down 300's and Chargers outfitted with the HP Hemi packages, I think Chrysler could come back in full force in the Police car market. I'd even forgive them for the Intrepid.

 

[lght1]

Hi

The earlier 1978-1979 Olds Diesels ( 350, Vin "N") were 'pencil" type injector engines, which were not EGRed and produced 120hp, 125 in the 1978 Chev C10 2wd.

In 1980, a EGR, "poppet" type injector was used and from that point on..produced only 105 hp.

These engines suffered primarily from headgasket issues. Late in 1984, Victor came out with a "GrafPak" type headhasket, and with new, stronger headbolts and GM torquing proceedures, the heads finally stayed put.

Injection timing was crucial to the heads staying down. More then 2 degrees advanced was risking a lot.

The non "DX" block, produced from 1978-1981 was prone to cracking around the bell housing, and that same "D" block had crank issues as well.

Late in 1979 production, 6v glow plugs arrived to cut the "wait" time on a cold day.

A ton of fixes arrived for 1981. New roller lifters, new, stronger block and crank helped solve earlier failures of these components. Also, a fuel heater option, and a intank water separator was offered and could be retro'd into older cars.

1982 showed a improved ring set and a fix for the injection pump "governor weight retaining ring" failure.

By the time the 1985's were out...they were finally a fine powertrain...but too late. Recalls, tv's 20/20 News magazine's expose and general bad press made this a pariah which no one wanted.

1986 brought FWD sedans enmass from GM, and the era of diesel 350 cids was over and the upcoming 3800 V6 was begining.

Even the dandy 4.3 V6 diesel suffered from the parent 350's same issues and could not survive.

I had a 1983 Chev Celebrity with the 4.3 V6 diesel, and that car easily showed 35-40 mpg with only a 3spd trans and lockup t/c.

 

[moribundman]

About 10 years ago, I saw a train loaded with a bunch of 5 series BMW cop cars for the US or Canadian market. I have no idea who got them.

 

[TooManyWheels]

Police use entails several issues not common to passenger cars, which I am surprised have not yet been mentioned. There is the high electrical demand to run the radios, lights, sirens, computers, etc. There is the extremely high percentage of idle time, during which the electrical load is high. This causes a need for large batteries, alternators and radiators, which are more easily accomodated with larger cars.

Police seem to have a need to use their cars as off-road vehicles (at least many of the ones I see), therefore the need for a heavy duty suspension and decent travel and ground clearance.

And last but not least, if you are going to be ramming, nerfing or blocking wayward motorists, it would be insane not to put the laws of physics on your side with the largest mo-fo you could procure!!

 

[moribundman]

quote:

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it would be insane not to put the laws of physics on your side with the largest mo-fo you could procure!!

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A Maybach cruiser?

 

[bar1]

Here the police use Volvo V70, Ford Mondeo, Opel Vecra, Subaru Legacy Outback, Peugeot 406/7, Toyota Avensis, Nissan Primera.
"Highway" patrol have special prepared cars with larger, more powerful engines, suspension etc.
These cars are "civil" with no exterior police signs.

 

[TheTanSedan]

I realize that 7.2 liter cop cars are unlikely. It was more that they LOOKED like cop cars, they RAN like cop cars and they generated RESPECT.

I think that DC indicates that the police package Charger with V6 has all-around better performance than the legendary Police Pursuits, and that is palatable by the numbers. The looks are certainly an improvement.

The full-size Chryslers from 1957 to 1979 were the best of the road cars. I had to give up my 1971 model due to health just last year. I recently drove my father-in-laws BUICK Roadmaster with the LT1. Not hard to see why the cops loved them. But they still have that inferior coil-sprung suspension that fights body movement (I use to call it the Cadillac wiggle for the way the rear acts), and the LT1 doesn't have the balls of a B or RB Chrysler Wedge (displacements of B: 361, 383, 400. RB: 413, 426, 440 -- and with a stroker crank as only change: 505). Their size and weight gave them the unmatched durability -- not to mention better design from the get-go than FORD or GM big blocks -- but they're impossible for todays vehicles.

The carb and ignition issues were fixable, as was the alternator/ampmeter problem. My nearly 5000-lb Newport got 19 mpg at 72 mph, and city was 12-16 depending on driving mix on the old, detonation-prone motor (todays gas means a rebuild just to get the piston quench tight). A friend has an untouched '67 440 Imperial that will get 16 mpg at 75 mph and still run out past 130. Radial tires means it needs a rear anti-sway bar, but Hotchkiss drive behind a torsion bar front means the bars are tiny compared to what a FORD or GM requires. Just add KONI shocks. Almost had the steering thing figured out (was going to have LEE build me a variable-ratio box for power steering), and the brakes were upgradeable to Carbon Metallic linings f/r. The ride was far superior and the suspension worked WITH the body far more easily than the competition.

TooManyWheels hits the nail on the head for requirements. We ask our police to do what more military units in Europe and the rest are assigned in re apprehension and all. Plus, our distances are enormous and our crime -- type and volume -- are staggering. (That is don't ever believe any story about the "drop in crime" unless they compare it to 1960 figures).

I can see the appeal of a Tahoe or Durango over a FWD Impala for some departments. I'd just hate to be the one called on to apprehend the criminal everyone is trying to get due to the heinous crime alleged . . be very easy to push that thing too far.

 

[sxg6]

bringing this thread back after i found this article on cnn.com

http://www.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/funonwheels/01/19/best_cars_for_cops/index.html