Amazon set to lay off thousands in Washington state

[4wd]

Companies are not just sending engineering jobs overseas. They are sending financial services, accounting, administrative, and even HR functions overseas. Computers and cubicles can be anywhere doing the same functions that were once done at HQ.
There is also a propensity to use contract personnel to appear leaner - not provide the benefit packages - and no big HR hassles when they don’t work out.

 

[Arc]

That’s the fiduciary responsibility of the company.
(It’s loyalty by the law has to be to the shareholders)
Run as lean as efficient as possible for the greatest amount of profit.

And it has been the cause of what we see in rural America today. A race to the bottom ends in poverty for the majority and prosperity for the few. I prefer the old way where a company owner invests their own money back into the company for growth and takes personal risks.

 

[Arc]

I agree with you regarding 'high tech' jobs but Americans don't want to do the hard work that Latino immigrants are doing....too comfortable in mom's basement or on the government tit.

When my parents immigrated here (at different times...they met here) my father was about to turn 15 and his mother was here already after my grandfather died and left her with 6 kids and no income...at 19 he was in a submarine firing torpedoes at Japanese shipping. My mother came in her early 20s and had to have an aunt sponsor her which meant that they guaranteed you wouldn't become a burden to the American taxpayers Those laws were still in effect when my wife came here in 1975...her sister sponsored her. What happened to that system???

I believe you that that's your experience but I've seen a lot of the opposite. For example I was on 'building inspection' (for fire safety) in the South Bronx 'Projects' (low income public assistance 14 story building). I got into a conversation with guys delivering new stoves to the tenants. They told me they have to replace many stoves every 2 or 3 years because the tenants never clean them and they reek of grease and dirt. My current stove is about 15 years old because we clean it because we have to pay for a new one unlike those 'tenants'. In fairness I always felt bad for the decent people in those buildings who kept their homes nice and were forced to live next to slobs who attracted rodents with their lack of basic hygiene.

Another example was when we were called on a medical 'emergency' (the FD took over EMS in NYC in the 90s and an Engine Company would respond as CFRD (Certified First Responder-Defibrillator trained...which is below an EMT). We would more often than not arrive before the ambulance and often found the 'victim' waiting to go to the hospital for a previously scheduled appointment or to have a baby (suitcase packed and all). In other words they dialed 911 rather than calling for a cab like most people would. I always felt there should of been penalties for this abuse but that would never happen with the politicians running NYC.

The world sure has changed just during my lifetime and I feel for those living into the next few generations. It's going to be tough.

 

[Arc]

You are mixing 2 different things.
1 - There is not enough qualified talent; that is not just a saying.
2 - A public for-profit company responsibility is to minimize costs. Yes, they are beholden to their shareholders, by definition.

Are you for or against Capitalism?

I am for capitalism and it has served me well over the years. That being said as a retired business owner I also had a responsibility to the workers who made my life easier. You can't serve two masters and that's exactly what happens between shareholders and employees. Big corps today have no face and nobody for the consumer of their services to hold accountable. History shows that every economy fails and instead of learning from history we repeat the same mistakes. Greed and selfishness of the individual.

When you stop hiring local talent there comes a point where nobody is trained in the trade you need because there is no employment to be gained in that trade. That is a manmade deficit to justify the hiring practices we see today but in the beginning it was a lie that served to lower labor costs. I watched it happen in construction for many years and now we have lost those tradesmen.

 

[svtrit]

Hasn't there also been a large push in Washington state to tax the bejesus out of 'high flying' companies in that state?

There are some wage laws that make it difficult to do business in WA state. I know of decisions being made by companies because of this, and some of the real estate tax concerns that make other states more friendly to do business in.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I am for capitalism and it has served me well over the years. That being said as a retired business owner I also had a responsibility to the workers who made my life easier. You can't serve two masters and that's exactly what happens between shareholders and employees. Big corps today have no face and nobody for the consumer of their services to hold accountable. History shows that every economy fails and instead of learning from history we repeat the same mistakes. Greed and selfishness of the individual.

When you stop hiring local talent there comes a point where nobody is trained in the trade you need because there is no employment to be gained in that trade. That is a manmade deficit to justify the hiring practices we see today but in the beginning it was a lie that served to lower labor costs. I watched it happen in construction for many years and now we have lost those tradesmen.

I am 100% against chasing short term wealth via stock gains. The few companies I worked for were not that way.

Silicon Valley paid for my education and offered to send me to grad school. I was 40 when I got my degree, so I was done with school.
Silicon Valley knows there is not enough local talent; they know they "have to grow them".

Today my Business Major with minors in Econ and Computer Science would easily exceed $150K. I was told to take time off as needed to complete my studies. I am forever grateful.

This is Capitalism at its finest. More people have risen out of poverty under Capitalism than any other Economic system.

 

[svtrit]

I don't think you really realize what is "poor". Everything but the car is pretty cheap, and only the cell phone with a $30-40/month plan is necessary for modern life.
People working a couple jobs 60+hrs a week to spend half their gross income on a bad apartment, and buy overpriced junk food at the local supermarket, and don't have a reliable car or time, to go to the cheaper grocery store in town, aren't really having a "good time".

1/3 of the US households have less than $50k per income... So after taxes, rent, utility bills, health insurance? They get down to $3-400 per week for food, transportation, clothes... They aren't ordering $150/month tv/internet packages to watch the disney channel on their 87" TV, or getting 4-5% cash back credit cards.

We make a decent amount of money, but even I have a hard time forking over what a semi-reliable car costs these days, and that's with having the space and tools to do most of the maintenance and simple fixes.... And we have no mortgage or car payments.

When we were going through foster parent training, we had to play a "game" where we were given a fixed income as a single parent with a child, then make decisions about what we would do in certain scenarios, such as the car needs a $300 repair, your kid is sick and you are out of time off, etc.

It was eye opening for someone like me who came from a middle class home with 2 parents. My parents never had to bail me out of any issue, but I did have them. My wife and I raised 4 kids with my income only though some sacrifice. People around me bought Harley's, Suburbans, and went on vacations while we lived within our means. I do/did have a good career with a reliable annual bonus (plus a company vehicle which is a huge benefit), which has me a leg up on others, as I now see as I watch my kids live in our current price structure.

There are differing levels of poor. I know people in very, very large houses with new cars that are poor because of choice. I know of guys at the plant that make an hourly wage, but are poor because of some very poor life choices. There are guys at the plant making the same wage age as the poor person because they live within their means.

Poor is a tough thing to define overall.

 

[alarmguy]

. I prefer the old way where a company owner invests their own money back into the company for growth and takes personal risks.

That’s what they still do. Nothing’s changed.

 

[IndyIan]

That’s the fiduciary responsibility of the company.
(It’s loyalty by the law has to be to the shareholders)
Run as lean as efficient as possible for the greatest amount of profit.

I guess the question is at what time scale? Quarterly, yearly, a decade, century?
Being to lean is riskier as well, and dumping the whole R&D department sure makes the quarterly or annual numbers look good! But where does that leave the company in 3-4+ years....
I assume Buffet picked most of his investments on the 5+ year time frame, and it he seemed to get decent returns with less risk by choosing companies that were also looking long term?

 

[srfdude]

I suspect New York may have something to do with that. In CA, in spite of all the problems here, my Amazon delilveries typically are overnight, rarely over next day, and never over 2 days.

I've ordered a lot of stuff from Amazon in the last 2 months and rarely have they been delivered in the time frame promised. I ordered a coolant surge tank for my Focus that promised 2 day delivery and it took 2 weeks. I was away from home by then and had to have my neighbor watch for the delivery. I'm canceling Prime after my subscription expires...you can still get free delivery by spending $35. If I need something that cost less I have my kids order it.

 

[IndyIan]

Aren't they sending just as much money back home? Exfiltrating USD to other countries isn't great from my understanding. Might as well place larger taxes on this?

My neighbor hires 3 legal migrant workers from Mexico every year for his farm, and their ~$150k labor, grosses his farm somewhere near $1M. Of the $150k probably 60% does leave the country, and 40% gets left here in food, rent, and income taxes, but those workers are key for making $1M of value appear out of the ground, so I think its a win/win for my neighbor and the migrant workers. Probably on average now the farm buys $30-50k of new equipment every year, most made in N.A. but he does like that Kubota orange.
Probably the farm would have to spend ~$250k on local labor to do the same job? Starting off, it would've been tougher for the farm to have higher labor costs, but I guess now they could probably make it pencil out, but it would likely be more hassle.

 

[Owen Lucas]

My neighbor hires 3 legal migrant workers from Mexico every year for his farm, and their ~$150k labor, grosses his farm somewhere near $1M. Of the $150k probably 60% does leave the country, and 40% gets left here in food, rent, and income taxes, but those workers are key for making $1M of value appear out of the ground, so I think its a win/win for my neighbor and the migrant workers. Probably on average now the farm buys $30-50k of new equipment every year, most made in N.A. but he does like that Kubota orange.
Probably the farm would have to spend ~$250k on local labor to do the same job? Starting off, it would've been tougher for the farm to have higher labor costs, but I guess now they could probably make it pencil out, but it would likely be more hassle.

I agree, there is a role for legal migrant labor and it's super important. Until robots are capable of soft touch dexterous work, we'll need migrants to do the work that most of us wouldn't do because it's either below our skill level/not worth the pay or no one wants to do physical labor anymore. When you can sit in an office or do retail, picking berries seems beneath many.

Good to see he is profitable, I like my Canadian produce, some of the nicest picture perfect strawberries and raspberries come out of CA right now. Not bad for the middle of winter!

 

[Arc]

I am 100% against chasing short term wealth via stock gains. The few companies I worked for were not that way.

Silicon Valley paid for my education and offered to send me to grad school. I was 40 when I got my degree, so I was done with school.
Silicon Valley knows there is not enough local talent; they know they "have to grow them".

Today my Business Major with minors in Econ and Computer Science would easily exceed $150K. I was told to take time off as needed to complete my studies. I am forever grateful.

This is Capitalism at its finest. More people have risen out of poverty under Capitalism than any other Economic system.

 

[mr_boring]

. American business followed GE's Jack Welch's offshoring advice. And here we are.

I despise that guy. His bad advice and his wackadoo views of LSS and how to ruin the TPS really messed up a ton of business.

 

[Arc]

My neighbor hires 3 legal migrant workers from Mexico every year for his farm, and their ~$150k labor, grosses his farm somewhere near $1M. Of the $150k probably 60% does leave the country, and 40% gets left here in food, rent, and income taxes, but those workers are key for making $1M of value appear out of the ground, so I think its a win/win for my neighbor and the migrant workers. Probably on average now the farm buys $30-50k of new equipment every year, most made in N.A. but he does like that Kubota orange.
Probably the farm would have to spend ~$250k on local labor to do the same job? Starting off, it would've been tougher for the farm to have higher labor costs, but I guess now they could probably make it pencil out, but it would likely be more hassle.

$50k a year and he can't find a local worker? Sounds hard to believe.

 

[zzyzzx]

we'll need migrants to do the work that most of us wouldn't do because it's either below our skill level/not worth the pay or no one wants to do physical labor anymore. When you can sit in an office or do retail, picking berries seems beneath many.

 

[svtrit]

The Central Valley of California is full of tomato picking machines and semi trucks during the month of July. That invention was a direct response to the activism of Caesar Chavez and greatly reduced the amount of labor needed to pick tomatoes. It's the same thing as the response of McDonalds having self serve kiosks to minimum wage hikes. Yay or nay, it is happening.

The Ag industry is full of innovation now. A company just a few miles from me has developed self driving tractors that work very well. I have a very good friend that works for an organization that does custom testing for improved technology in Ag, and a lot of it has to do with self driving machines.

People will be replaced by machines for simple labor tasks.

 

[JeffKeryk]

People will be replaced by machines for simple labor tasks.

And not so simple tasks. Automation is nothing new.
AI, however, is on another level.

 

[Dave Hess]

The new occupation buzz will soon be "just learn how to weld".

Yeah, I hate when people say become a welder, plumber or electrician.

Lots of these people on Reddit complaining that it’s not an easy job.

 

[Pew]

Yeah, I hate when people say become a welder, plumber or electrician.

Lots of these people on Reddit complaining that it’s not an easy job.

Not at all; they all complain about health issues by middle age, multiple divorces, alcohol and drug abuse on the reddits and I can believe it. Not the results I would envy although their work is honorable.

$50k a year and he can't find a local worker? Sounds hard to believe.

Probably not enough local hands to help anyways, if the only people that are local-ish are themselves farmers or already have some sort of job in their farming town.