Am I over thinking the Fram Endurance

[ARCOgraphite]

Exactly why it’s important to run a high efficiency leaking oil filter

Well at least the oil proceeding through the media will be filtered to stated efficiency - so yes.

I too would probably eventually succumb to the paranoia, right that morning where I sat up in bad, all a nightmarish sweat, Lol.

Would I ever buy parts with these known (unresolved) issues, no! I have removed a few of the premium Fram from various subaru fb engines due to startup racket and warmup racket - so not a fan. Don't understand the mechanism. But a new, different brand quality filter solves it.

Missing the hero Suptech MP line after previously missing Champ labs Premium AP box store branded stuff from a decade ago. Now missing the Premium WIX stuff too.

What a freaking disaster ... ... ... But China parts = NO WAY!

 

[Reloader59]

It's not filtering at 20 microns if oil is leaking past the bypass.

 

[ZeeOSix]

p.s.: Guessing a modest price increase coming on China sourced filters?

Spin-on filters are made of metal.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

It's not filtering at 20 microns if oil is leaking past the bypass.

Not generally to the ISO test standard, but the majority of the oil volume flow is being filtered to the nominal rating. Think of how many times the sump volume on your passenger car is filtered in multipass over an hour - just sauntering down the interstate. The oil in the sump is clean.

Even if you have installed a properly functioning filter with a dome end bypass - you are toast anyhow. During the occasional bypass event you are flushing accumulated debris at the dome right into the mains drills, Nice, big, scratchy, hard grit.

- Arco

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Spin-on filters are made of metal.

Looks like I am going to be drinking TSINGTAO out of bottles!

 

[WiredForStereo]

Yes, you're overthinking it.

You're using a super high efficiency filter, nearly the best. Some oil is always going to get by, FILTERS HAVE BUILT IN BYPASS!!!

The vast majority of the oil is always passing through the filter media, and appropriate sized particles are always being caught.

It's just not a big concern.

 

[Faawrenchbndr]

Yes, you're overthinking it.

You're using a super high efficiency filter, nearly the best. Some oil is always going to get by, FILTERS HAVE BUILT IN BYPASS!!!

The vast majority of the oil is always passing through the filter media, and appropriate sized particles are always being caught.

It's just not a big concern.

A built in bypass is quite different than a built-in leak.

Inequality filter that bypass valve doesn’t stay open all the time. It’s not supposed to leak contrary to popular belief. The bypass valve doesn’t open as much as many people think it does

 

[Patman]

A built in bypass is quite different than a built-in leak.

Inequality filter that bypass valve doesn’t stay open all the time. It’s not supposed to leak contrary to popular belief. The bypass valve doesn’t open as much as many people think it does

Exactly! The bypass valve really only opens if the filter is very clogged (which takes way longer than you think) or if it’s extremely cold out and you give it a good amount of gas (also not likely) I can’t imagine a scenario where someone is actually happy to pay $13 for a filter that really doesn’t do its job properly at all.

 

[MetalSlug]

When did the leaky issue start? Or discovery because Last year on May 2024 I install the Fram endurance on my 2003 Mustang Cobra, At that time it was one of the top recommend oil filter, some thing was like “ Endurance and Amsoil oil filter was made on same factory “ something like that. That why I bought it.

 

[Patman]

When did the leaky issue start? Or discovery because Last year on May 2024 I install the Fram endurance on my 2003 Mustang Cobra, At that time it was one of the top recommend oil filter, some thing was like “ Endurance and Amsoil oil filter was made on same factory “ something like that. That why I bought it.

It looks like the issue started sometime during 2023 production. So if the filter was made in early 2023 you’re ok but late 2023 is not so good

 

[MetalSlug]

It looks like the issue started sometime during 2023 production. So if the filter was made in early 2023 you’re ok but late 2023 is not so good

I think at that time when I bought it, Walmart just got it.

You telling me I been running leaky oil filter this whole time lol. I will try snap a date code on it

 

[Patman]

I think at that time when I bought it, Walmart just got it.

You telling me I been running leaky oil filter this whole time lol. I will try snap a date code on it

Hopefully you got one of the good ones
I bought one for my Corvette that I never ended up using but I’m going to put it on for my next interval because it’s an early 2023 production filter and should be ok. The cheapskate in me hates the idea of not using something I paid $13 for I got mad last night when the gas price at Costco dropped to 115.9 cents per liter just an hour after I paid 122.9 cents a liter

 

[Sayjac]

When did the leaky issue start? Or discovery........

Whip City Wrencher was one of, if not the first to start flashlight testing on the Fram FE and other Champ Labs made filters. Linked is his vid of an FE7317 made Feb 20 2023. It was his testing of the 7317, the application I use, that inspired me to follow up with my own flashlight test of same application HERE. Same result. Unfortunately, I can't give a date certain when not an issue.

 

[Hohn]

I compared that filter with the Microgard, both are well respected.

They are essentially the same filter, both made by PGI.

 

[MetalSlug]

Hopefully you got one of the good ones
I bought one for my Corvette that I never ended up using but I’m going to put it on for my next interval because it’s an early 2023 production filter and should be ok. The cheapskate in me hates the idea of not using something I paid $13 for I got mad last night when the gas price at Costco dropped to 115.9 cents per liter just an hour after I paid 122.9 cents a liter

Made me want go home and snap a picture of the date code. OCD kicking in

 

[Hohn]

I suppose my membership in BITOG is at risk by holding this view, but the "leaky fram" is an absolute nothingburger. It's a classic case of BITOG overthinking, right up there with obsessing over a couple tenths HTHS or 200ppm of whatever additive element is preferred.

What is the viscosity of light? Oil is not light. It has real viscosity and doesn't like to flow through narrow clearances.



The leaky fram issue amounts to worry about the current flow through a 100meg ohm resistor in parallel with a 100k ohm resistor. The higher resistance isn't zero current, it's close enough to be considered zero.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I suppose my membership in BITOG is at risk by holding this view, but the "leaky fram" is an absolute nothingburger. It's a classic case of BITOG overthinking, right up there with obsessing over a couple tenths HTHS or 200ppm of whatever additive element is preferred.

What is the viscosity of light? Oil is not light. It has real viscosity and doesn't like to flow through narrow clearances.

The leaky fram issue amounts to worry about the current flow through a 100meg ohm resistor in parallel with a 100k ohm resistor. The higher resistance isn't zero current, it's close enough to be considered zero.

Calculations were done base on the gap measurements from @Glenda W., and the leak was estimated to be 15%. Photo in post 16 looks like the one measured in a previous thread.

Here's what a 15% leak of dirty oil past the media would do the the filter's efficiency. This is based on how 100,000 particles on the dirty side would come out on the clean side of the filter with an internal leak. Of course, if the leakage is less, then the orange curve will move up towards the blue line, which is the efficiency line with no leakage. If people don't care, then at least use a high efficiency leaky filter ... see post 8.

 

[Gravity_Wolves]

The real problem isn't the leaky leaf spring it's those choked off louvers

 

[Hohn]

Calculations were done base on the gap measurements from @Glenda W., and the leak was estimated to be 15%. Photo in post 16 looks like the one measured in a previous thread.

Here's what a 15% leak of dirty oil past the media would do the the filter's efficiency. This is base on how 100,000 particles on the dirty side would come out on the clean side of the filter. If people don't care, then at least use a high efficiency leaky filter ... see post 8.

View attachment 276720 View attachment 276722

I remember seeing that and 1) it's nowhere near 15%, the calculations are WAGs masquerading as science, and 2) even if it was 15% of flow, that merely make the Endurance is good or better than almost every OEM-spec filter. Which has been shown many, many times to keep engines alive quite sufficiently.

Organizing fabricated data in neat tables and charts does not change the fact that the actual data was pulled from thin air.


The original calculations were based on taking a surface area guesstimated based on a crude measurement. But they completely ignored the aspect ratio that is such a critical part. A flat and super thin surface area is not at all the same as a round orifice when it comes to the restriction posed to viscous flow. The perimeter-to-area ratio matters hugely because of the attached flow at the surface.

I'll post a follow up to demonstrate this.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I remember seeing that and 1) it's nowhere near 15%, the calculations are WAGs masquerading as science, and 2) even if it was 15% of flow, that merely make the Endurance is good or better than almost every OEM-spec filter. Which has been shown many, many times to keep engines alive quite sufficiently.

Organizing fabricated data in neat tables and charts does not change the fact that the actual data was pulled from thin air.

The original calculations were based on taking a surface area guesstimated based on a crude measurement. But they completely ignored the aspect ratio that is such a critical part. A flat and super thin surface area is not at all the same as a round orifice when it comes to the restriction posed to viscous flow. The perimeter-to-area ratio matters hugely because of the attached flow at the surface.

I'll post a follow up to demonstrate this.

Go back and read that thread again where the calculations were made. I took the aspect ratio of the flow paths into effect. I started out with a simple model, but later refined it with a flow coefficient that was way down in the mud, like 0.60. Even if the flow coefficient was 0.40-0.50 the leakage is still pretty significant. The info wasn't "pulled from the air". You're saying @Glenda W. made "crude measurements"? Might want to be careful accusing people of things you can't verify. Let's see your analysis and calculations.