All Oil Ain't the Same

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N.H, U.S.A.
In post #57 you said:
"If you have bypass/regulator around the pump you DO NOT have an effective positive displacement OIL FLOW. So if oil was not flowing you would have static head of say 60-70 PSI and the volume of oil would flow around the pump."

That is a confusing way to describe a PD oil pump IMO - you say "so if oil was not flowing". Even if the pump is in pressure relief there is still oil flowing - plenty of oil as shown in the graph in post #64. Oil is never not flowing. You make it sound like all flow stops. Your statements however in post #72 makes more sense.
That was just an example of what would occur in this system if oil flow was blocked.

Oftentimes to understand a system you have to look at the limits;
as here, unimpeded flow then fully impeded flow to predict what happens when approaching functional limits.
As we do in the calculus of differential equations

The keyword in my statement was "IF". I agree I could have explained it better for the Layperson.

I must be more attentive to my audience.
 
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28,354
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PNW
That was just an example of what would occur in this system if oil flow was blocked.

Oftentimes to understand a system you have to look at the limits;
as here, unimpeded flow then fully impeded flow to predict what happens when approaching functional limits.
As we do in the calculus of differential equations

The keyword in my statement was "IF". I agree I could have explained it better for the Layperson.

I must be more attentive to my audience.
Having a totally blocked oil flow is super rare ... a lot of things would have to happen at the same time. And besides, if the pressure relief is working right it won't allow an over pressure situation and blow up the system. That's the whole purpose of the pump pressure relief valve. But if you go back and re-read this thread you'll see everything I've said is accurate. I think we're basically on the same page, but just have a different way of describing functionality of a PD oiling system.
 

Gebo

Thread starter
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5,099
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VA
Gebo, Let's rescue this thread from the silliness of the forum crowd.

If it wasn't the oil, maybe it was a fueling issue. Do you get the gasoline on both cars form the same vendor?

I've seen this mahogany/ red colour in my sump in the past when I got a bad batch of gasoline in engine that didn't deal well with mis-blended or "phase separated" gasoline: Gas with well over 10% Ethanol.
If your Station Dispenser doesn't have an inline SAP filter you wont know until its too late.

Can you read you ST/LT fuel trims for clues?
I only buy gas from Top Tier. Shell or Exxon. The other car probably gets gas anywhere.

I don't know how to read fuel trims. LOL
 
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11,010
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Cincinnati, OH, USA
It’s doing OK in the Express & my son’s ‘07 Accord 2.4 so far. Red tends to mean dissolved varnish, sounds like it may be cleaning? I don’t think I would give up on it that quickly.
 
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961
Location
CA
RGT just might be the best oil I’ve used. I used it in my Silverado, it cut my oil consumption down. Used it in my Avalon...did what every other does in my Avalon...not use a drop, quiet, doesn’t turn dark and then I drain it after 5,000 miles.

There have been multiple “test” videos on it on YouTube...UOA after 14,000 miles, tested great with great returns from the analysis. Project Farm had a competition/playoff with 16 different major brands competing against each other...I think it finished 4th or 3rd, with Amsoil winning.

Aside from having the ugliest bottle in the business, I like like it. Having said that, I only buy whatever I can get on rebate or sale...right now that’s Pennzoil platinum...which I believe is made by the same company that makes RGT. And I’m currently working down my stash...just changed my oil yesterday using Quaker State Ultimate Durability (which I believe also is made by the same manufacturer as RGT).
Oh for $&@k$ sake.

This thread (and forum in general) is the automotive equivalent of the opening scene from 2001: A space odyssey.
 
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16,541
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N.H, U.S.A.
Having a totally blocked oil flow is super rare ... a lot of things would have to happen at the same time. And besides, if the pressure relief is working right it won't allow an over pressure situation and blow up the system. That's the whole purpose of the pump pressure relief valve. But if you go back and re-read this thread you'll see everything I've said is accurate. I think we're basically on the same page, but just have a different way of describing functionality of a PD oiling system.
I think it was your italicised statement that "... it forces oil volume ..." With a pressure relief in the system, that can never be true in an ABSOLUTE sense; It can ramp up pressure to maintain a certain volume flow, but it can not go to unsafe levels - unless the relief pill is stuck. There are limitations - by design.

But that may just have been a misunderstanding of the intent of your statement on my part.

I've had terribly noisy engines with some filter installs - and that should NOT be so. I am sensitive to this issue. It is an unresolved problem that I will place that on the failure of the "system" to provide adequate PV, but also on material spec issues with the filter.

This is just one of the reasons I joined this forum - and NORIA - ages ago as "Busted Knuckles" I think that was my handle :)

have a good one,

- Ken
 
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Messages
28,354
Location
PNW
I think it was your italicised statement that "... it forces oil volume ..." With a pressure relief in the system, that can never be true in an ABSOLUTE sense; It can ramp up pressure to maintain a certain volume flow, but it can not go to unsafe levels - unless the relief pill is stuck. There are limitations - by design.

But that may just have been a misunderstanding of the intent of your statement on my part.

Like I said, if the pressure relief is not operating then it certainly does force all the oil leaving the pump through the system ... what do you think creates the oil pressure? ... it's the pump forcing the oil through the oiling system. And even if the pressure relief is open some, the oil is still technically being forced through the system - there is still oil pressure. If there was no force there would be no movement of oil through the system and no oil pressure. If a PD pump doesn't force oil, then what is it doing beside forcing? It's certainly not gravity causing the oil to flow. On a basic level, all "pumps" (regardless of type) "force flow" in one way or the other.
 
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Messages
16,541
Location
N.H, U.S.A.
Like I said, if the pressure relief is not operating then it certainly does force all the oil leaving the pump through the system ... what do you think creates the oil pressure? ... it's the pump forcing the oil through the oiling system. And even if the pressure relief is open some, the oil is still technically being forced through the system - there is still oil pressure. If there was no force there would be no movement of oil through the system and no oil pressure. If a PD pump doesn't force oil, then what is it doing beside forcing? It's certainly not gravity causing the oil to flow. On a basic level, all "pumps" (regardless of type) "force flow" in one way or the other.
At this stage, Let's chalk the original argument it up to semantics.
I will assume your illustration is for laypersons reading this thread and you are not talking down to me.
And I am not saying that to be "snooty" :)
Best Regards,
- Ken
 
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28,354
Location
PNW
At this stage, Let's chalk the original argument it up to semantics.
I will assume your illustration is for laypersons reading this thread and you are not talking down to me.
And I am not saying that to be "snooty" :)
Best Regards,
- Ken
If you go back to what I said in post #22, and how you rrsponded in post #57, which got this debate rolling, it seems a bit more than semantics goibg on. If you thought what I said in 22 was correct, you wouldn't have responded like you did in 57. So seems there's still a misunderstanding or viewpoint difference going on. But hey, it's all cool because going in circles like oil in an oiling system needs an OCI at some point, and seems the PD pump pressure relief valve just popped. 😄 :)
 
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