Air Filter @ 67K..warning, GRAPHIC PICS!

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Originally Posted By: CHARLIEBRONSON21
Lifetime filter FTW it seems.


Well, since you mention it...

Another thing this suggests to me is that the Visteon "Lifetime filter" system (as used in some of Ford's 2.3L I4 engines)really is the way to go if mfg's really wanted the absolutely "best wearing engines". I think the cost of the system just wasn't justified, as most buyers didn't see a benefit.

There's lot of handwringing and complaining about that system by people who think they "know better", but I have still yet to see a single documented case of the filtering system reaching full capacity, no matter the mileage.

The Visteon system was a MUCH more robust than a single air filter, so if a regular paper filter can go 6 years without any problems, I'm going to believe it's good for life under all but the most extreme circumstanced.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD
Originally Posted By: CHARLIEBRONSON21
Lifetime filter FTW it seems.


Well, since you mention it...

Another thing this suggests to me is that the Visteon "Lifetime filter" system (as used in some of Ford's 2.3L I4 engines)really is the way to go if mfg's really wanted the absolutely "best wearing engines". I think the cost of the system just wasn't justified, as most buyers didn't see a benefit.

There's lot of handwringing and complaining about that system by people who think they "know better", but I have still yet to see a single documented case of the filtering system reaching full capacity, no matter the mileage.

The Visteon system was a MUCH more robust than a single air filter, so if a regular paper filter can go 6 years without any problems, I'm going to believe it's good for life under all but the most extreme circumstanced.







what did these filters look like? what were they made out of?
 
Originally Posted By: afoulk


what did these filters look like? what were they made out of?

2005 Ford Focus:

028big.jpg


It's a foam unit on the bottom with a restriction gauge indicating remaining lifetime. They expect that most will never need a new one unless driven in dusty conditions.

I was reading that a replacement would be about $500, just for the part. It should be something that could reasonably be done by the home mechanic. It looks like it's attached by hose clamps.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w


I was reading that a replacement would be about $500, just for the part.


I lost interest at $500. Sheesh, $100, $200 maybe. But $500? You'll never recoup that expense.

It is the right concept though.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: y_p_w


I was reading that a replacement would be about $500, just for the part.


I lost interest at $500. Sheesh, $100, $200 maybe. But $500? You'll never recoup that expense.

It is the right concept though.

I think $500 might be for the entire unit. A lot of people were freaking out about the price way back. I found that the filter/resonator assembly is available as a separate part for less than $100. It's Ford part # 7S4Z-9E648-A:

http://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-resonator-asy_7s4z-9e648-a.html

Here's one available on eBay with some closeup pictures of the restriction gauge:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2006-2007-F...W-/160809102877

And it was discussed on BITOG:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1679105
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: y_p_w


I was reading that a replacement would be about $500, just for the part.


I lost interest at $500. Sheesh, $100, $200 maybe. But $500? You'll never recoup that expense.

It is the right concept though.

I think $500 might be for the entire unit. A lot of people were freaking out about the price way back. I found that the filter/resonator assembly is available as a separate part for less than $100. It's Ford part # 7S4Z-9E648-A:

http://www.fordpartsgiant.com/parts/ford-resonator-asy_7s4z-9e648-a.html

Here's one available on eBay with some closeup pictures of the restriction gauge:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2006-2007-F...W-/160809102877

And it was discussed on BITOG:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1679105


As always you can find it much cheaper than what the dealer wants for it. Thanks!
 
Funny that some people actually think changing the air filter every year or 15K is good for the engine. Barring a damaged filter, improper installation or a massively loaded filter due to environmental conditions the filter will actually catch more contaminants as it loads up. I had an Amsoil Ea in my Suburban and I checked it at 25K intervals. It was structurally sound each time I checked it and I would just turn it upside-down and tap it against the driveway those first two times I checked it. The last couple times I just visually inspected it and put it right back in. I sold the Suburban at about 195K and the Ea had about 100K on it at the time. I never noticed any loss of power and there were normal levels of Silicon in my UOAs. Granted, that was a nice expensive filter but I've seen similar on standard paper filters. I actually changed one on a Ford Expedition that was completely black and horrible looking - the owner noticed nothing with respect to power/acceleration afterwards. I got the feeling they thought it was a waste of money. That truck lived for nearly 250K before it was sold and probably only had that one paper filter replacement in its lifetime.

Every time the air cleaner is opened there is a chance of getting contaminants into the intake system. Every time a new filter of the same brand is replaced that new filter will not filter as well as the old one (unless the old one was damaged). If the old one is damaged, wet, or "full" then it needs to be replaced but this is normally a case of "don't fix it if it isn't broken".
 
Originally Posted By: cfromc
Funny that some people actually think changing the air filter every year or 15K is good for the engine. Barring a damaged filter, improper installation or a massively loaded filter due to environmental conditions the filter will actually catch more contaminants as it loads up. I had an Amsoil Ea in my Suburban and I checked it at 25K intervals. It was structurally sound each time I checked it and I would just turn it upside-down and tap it against the driveway those first two times I checked it. The last couple times I just visually inspected it and put it right back in. I sold the Suburban at about 195K and the Ea had about 100K on it at the time. I never noticed any loss of power and there were normal levels of Silicon in my UOAs. Granted, that was a nice expensive filter but I've seen similar on standard paper filters. I actually changed one on a Ford Expedition that was completely black and horrible looking - the owner noticed nothing with respect to power/acceleration afterwards. I got the feeling they thought it was a waste of money. That truck lived for nearly 250K before it was sold and probably only had that one paper filter replacement in its lifetime.

Every time the air cleaner is opened there is a chance of getting contaminants into the intake system. Every time a new filter of the same brand is replaced that new filter will not filter as well as the old one (unless the old one was damaged). If the old one is damaged, wet, or "full" then it needs to be replaced but this is normally a case of "don't fix it if it isn't broken".

A lot of people are under the impression that the absolute lowest restriction means more power and better fuel economy. It's been pounded into the public. I just picked up a Purolator oil filter box, and it mentions replacement of various filters including the air filter at 12K miles or every year. The hundreds of Fram air filter boxes I see at WM all say the same thing about 12K air filter replacement. K&N and other aftermarket air filter marketers talk about boosting performance and fuel economy by reducing restriction. I think it's dubious unless someone heavily modifies their setup. A drop in replacement surely isn't going to do much.

Still - I was under the impression that the OEM oiled paper filters I'm using are about as efficient new as they are after being loaded. I've noticed that they don't load more or less evenly like the dry filters I've taken out, but tend to clump stuff at the edges of the pleats.
 
Maybe I'll go take a look at my air filter, it's been on the car for 70k miles now. My air filter gauge still shows it good with very little restriction(less than 10" H2o). My car has been all over the western US, mostly the 11 western states and we drive around 28k miles a year in our S2000. Wonder if I'll find any dead mice?

ROD
 
The design of a car's air flow can greatly affect how quickly an air filter gets dirty. So it's not good to make generalizations.

I won't speak about really old designs where filters are round, but older designs would have the filters mounted vertically and in a box which the air will hit pretty straight from a duct in the intake.

Newer designs have complex ducting with twists and turns and the air filter is often upside down in it's box now. The performance enthusiasts feel these bends and curves are stealing power and so get a straightpipe aftermarket intake, but in reality the car even stock gets more than enough air then it can use anyway, and even if you have temporary dyno increases, the ECU will just account and adjust for that very shortly. Mainly the car will just sound different

This ducting filters particles as the denser particles can't make the turns and will just drop out of the air stream; and any that make it to the airbox will settle and won't be sucked vertically into the filter anyway. This is similar to how bagless vacuums work

Anyhoo, back to the point, my 98 car has a plain vertical airbox and will look like it needs an air filter after about 30k miles.
My 2009car has this more modern ducting and an upside down filter and will go 60k if not even more before the same amount of dirt accumulates.


As a side note: Most cabin airfilters don't have an airbox or complexities to do filtering and are just a straight shot from the outside intake down to the filter, so will gather leaves and other dust/grime pretty easily.
 
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I feel a bit embarrassed now. I change my filters when I change the oil. 10-12-15-17k depending how and where the vehicle was used.
I also clean the filters hith compressed air. Never had a problem with this method. Once read from BOSCH that a main reason MAFs fail is the unregular AF change.
And than respected technical members on this forum say that run as long as You can.
What should I think now?
 
Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
I am going to freak all of u out on this one. On the Van in my signature, we had the A/c repaired in May of 2008. I checked over there work and everything seemed to be fine. 7 months later while changing the oil I noticed the air intake was not connected freaked me out big time, but the van was and still is running smooth as can be. That is 7 months and at least 7,000 miles of almost zero filtration. I no longer worry about air filters


This is why I am concerned (but not really "worried") about having a properly installed air filter:

Originally Posted By: rrounds
Maybe I'll go take a look at my air filter, it's been on the car for 70k miles now. My air filter gauge still shows it good with very little restriction(less than 10" H2o). My car has been all over the western US, mostly the 11 western states and we drive around 28k miles a year in our S2000. Wonder if I'll find any dead mice?


When changing auto air filters, I've found a dead mouse once, mouse nests twice, and a dead bird. I don't think any of them would do much good to an engine processed through an intake valve, exhaust, or Cat, assuming they didn't blow the head gasket at TDC.

The air filter is there not just to filter out micronic particles!

I've never subscribed to the 12K/1 year interval or the OCI either. 3 years/36K is OK for me unless warranties have greater demands, they rarely do.

Of course the Iffy Lubes and some Dealers will blow a heart valve when I tell them that.
 
Different cars and trucks have drastically different air filter lives. Garak's G37 for example has double the surface are of my G35. My car air filter front is exposed to road grime and gets nasty in less than 10k miles of highway driving, requiring replacement by about 20k. It also gets wet and deforms if it isn't an OE oiled filter. One filter the media tore in the center with less than 25K on it, I don't remember what brand that was but I only use reputable brands. Now I use OE only.

My FX can go 50k easily in the same conditions. Bigger filter, deeper pleats and less exposure.
 
Resistance to change. Some people still insist on changing oil at 3K intervals and nothing will ever change their minds though the data says otherwise. The same holds true to AF changes or the mindset that more often is better.
 
I always wonder whats going on when I see pics like this. My BMW's air filter with ~35k on it looks like new. You've got a [censored] of a PCV problem if your filter is getting that oily.
 
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Originally Posted By: KenO
I always wonder whats going on when I see pics like this. My BMW's air filter with ~35k on it looks like new. You've got a [censored] of a PCV problem if your filter is getting that oily.


umm...huh?

Could you explain how the PCV would have anything to do with the dirty side of an air filter, because I'm completely lost. I realize it's the BITOG trend to blame everything on the PCV valve, but that just makes zero sense. The only thing hitting the filter is fresh air?

BTW, while I realize it's tough to tell from the pics, the filter wasn't oily, it was just dirty. This filter does come with a fine layer of oil, OEM, but it was very dry upon removal. Still, if combustion products are getting to the dirty side of an air filter, I'd think a PCV valve would be the least of your problems--time to start looking for giant holes in your engine block or something...
 
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