Air Filter @ 67K..warning, GRAPHIC PICS!

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Oh, and my UOA's on the subaru showed excellent filtration with the FRAM, single digit Si.
 
Originally Posted By: JOD

To Jim's questions, it's a "Filter-Minder" brand grommet-type filter, and the range is 2-8.7 kPa. It moved, slightly, when I first installed it (like 2.1). Then, it never moved again. I put a vacuum pump on it when I changed the air filter and it correlates well to the gauge on my Mityvac.



Excellent way to check the gauge and the way I do it too. I presume you use the WOT method to set the baseline? A grandma drive may never move the gauge ( : < ).

Originally Posted By: JOD

"Different than what my daddy taught me?". Well, as a kid I was instructed to (get ready to cringe) pull out the filter and bang it on the ground to "get out the dirt". Widman's posts on that subject still linger in my head!



You and me both! The air filters on HD equipment can tolerate that kind of treatment, but not many passenger car/light truck filters.

Originally Posted By: JOD


" I think engines like clean air better than "fresh air",


And that's the BITOG quote of the day as far as I'm concerned.

Lack of airflow from a partly loaded filter may cost you a few hp at some point at WOT. WOT is not a very frequent condition for those of us who aren't racing, running moonshine or chasing bad guys so it doesn't benefit you much. DIrty air hurts you all the time, whether idling or at WOT.
 
Originally Posted By: webfors
A basic FRAM paper filter has double the pleats of the OEM, like the one posted in this thread by the OP. I've never had an issue without the solid frame of the OEM. In fact I feel the FRAM (or puro, or similar designed filter) seals better in the airbox IMO.

Depends on the application. Fram doesn't actually make most of their own air filters. They contract out with someone else to make it to their specs. However, there are some that are clearly their design with that characteristic orange soft foam rubber frame that bends easily. If it's a simple box or simple round shape it's probably their characteristic design. If it's some sort of custom application then they don't even bother to hide that they just bought a ready made filter from some other company. Anything that requires a rigid frame or a specialty rubber gasket, and it's probably not their design. I looked at the odd shaped filter yesterday for my wife's Civic, and it seems identical to the Purolator version I bought. Strike that - for some reason that one had pleats that were extremely uneven and the potting material had a lot of excess.

I swore off orange Fram air filters years ago after I cut myself on one. I was installing one when the wire mesh broke through the foam. I don't believe that there's anything substandard about the ability to filter or seal properly, but it just seems flimsy and I won't install one. Another issue I have is that a lot of them seem to have anywhere from 1/2" to 3/4" of the foam intruding into the edge of the media. Here's a picture of a CA4309 for my application:

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I'll admit - I prefer the OEM because it's seems massively overengineered and overbuilt. I come from a technical background and can appreciate it. Maybe I'm spending $12 on an OEM filter compared to $8 for a Fram. I figure this is no big deal out of my wallet since it's only about every 2 years.
 
I am going to freak all of u out on this one. On the Van in my signature, we had the A/c repaired in May of 2008. I checked over there work and everything seemed to be fine. 7 months later while changing the oil I noticed the air intake was not connected freaked me out big time, but the van was and still is running smooth as can be. That is 7 months and at least 7,000 miles of almost zero filtration. I no longer worry about air filters
 
Back 30 years ago before feedback carbs a dirty air filter would act as a choke and make you run rich.

But when oxygen sensors came into being, this was compensated for.

Funny/ sad CARB still recommends an air filter for smog passing... though if you bring it back in before the fuel trim memory is updated you could plausibly sneak by with that temporary leanness.

PS I think you should hang on to that filter and play some sort of prank on jiffy lube.
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
Back 30 years ago before feedback carbs a dirty air filter would act as a choke and make you run rich.

But when oxygen sensors came into being, this was compensated for.

Funny/ sad CARB still recommends an air filter for smog passing... though if you bring it back in before the fuel trim memory is updated you could plausibly sneak by with that temporary leanness.

PS I think you should hang on to that filter and play some sort of prank on jiffy lube.
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The state doesn't necessarily recommend any particular repair. We've got test-only shops that typically charge more but aren't allowed to perform "repairs". They might give a suggestion but aren't allowed to even replace an air filter. Even if you've got "repairs" there's a certain limit, and once you can document your costs you can get a pass with a lower threshold. Or at least that's what I remember.

I've typically taken my car into a "tune up" shop where I've had oil changes or general maintenance done.
 
Does it make sense to reset the engine management system so it can relearn after a new air filter is installed?

I did this after a spark plug change and it seems to have helped.

Btw nice job JOD. Good to see a simple engineering approach. I was going to ask how do we know the restriction gauge was working but you then answered that question.
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Does it make sense to reset the engine management system so it can relearn after a new air filter is installed?

I did this after a spark plug change and it seems to have helped.

Btw nice job JOD. Good to see a simple engineering approach. I was going to ask how do we know the restriction gauge was working but you then answered that question.


Shouldn't be needed as both MAP and MAF types measure (total) restriction and actual airflow, respectively.

The filter acts as part of the throttling system.

Not sure but a diesel probably would do well with very clean intake.
 
Shoot, that filter's not bad at all. Mine has 1/2 the miles and 2-3 times dirter. Minder just showing now showing %50, in 1 1/2 yrs.

However i do agree that in his situation time will be the determing factor on filter change not milage.


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on instaling a minder as well !!!!
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Does it make sense to reset the engine management system so it can relearn after a new air filter is installed?



Don't think an air filter element change has enough impact in normal operation to matter much in the short run and most systems relearn in a while anyway. I have found that practice to be useful in a great number of minor glitchy situations where you want it solved immediately. I usually do it at the onset of winter when the gas stations change over to winter fuel.

If you were changing to a CAI or some other type of modified intake, you'd definitely reset.
 
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Imagine if jiffy lube got a hold of that filter.

Jiffy lube is not alone, AF's are one of the stealerships' favorite maintenance replacement items.
 
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I'm currently a ~30k AF fci guy which is what Honda also recommends. Learned last year that the 12k/1year filter makers recommendation is more to sell filters than anything else, and longer is much better than shorter with AF's.

My G37 has the 24000 km interval, and the things looked almost new, aside from a couple bugs' wings, when I replaced them. What a waste.
 
Originally Posted By: Artem
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
So again as with the OCI lets risk in my case a $17000 auto for a $20 air filter. No thanks


X2. I change the cabin air filter in my cars frequently not because the filter gets clogged but because it's DIRTY and i want to breath clean, fresh air, which went through a clean air filter.

The same goes for my engines. Although the air filter isn't clogged to the point of restricting air, it's still dirty and I want my engine to breath fresh air.

Of course I have an aftermarket performance cold air intake, so the Amsoil cone air filter at the end is washable, so I really don't waste any money by cleaning it
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Thank you to the OP for posting the info. Good to know that if NEEDED, the air filter can be pushed for several years.



$9.99 for a new Pure-One air filter I think I'll take my chances and change it yearly.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: sayjac
I'm currently a ~30k AF fci guy which is what Honda also recommends. Learned last year that the 12k/1year filter makers recommendation is more to sell filters than anything else, and longer is much better than shorter with AF's.

My G37 has the 24000 km interval, and the things looked almost new, aside from a couple bugs' wings, when I replaced them. What a waste.

Anyone know the specific reason why air filter changes are needed? I used to think that as a filter loaded up, the trapped stuff might be pushed out. However, the more I see others results (especially UOAs indicating low silicon levels), it sounds like the worst case scenario is that there's too much restriction. At that point doesn't the emissions system pick it up and record a trouble code?
 
It's restriction. The first loss is maximum power, once the airflow loss reaches the point below the airflow needs of the engine to make max power (many filters offer a 20-40% overage of airflow capacity to account for dirt loading).

The other problem is that the filter is designed for a maximum DP and when greatly exceeded, dirt can actually be pulled thru the media and/or the filter distorted enough to break the airbox seal or even be physically sucked into the intake. They saw this in the Oak Ridge Mpg tests that I have linked a few dozen times so far.

We are talking restriction of more than 30 inches of water here, so this is nearly impossible unless the driver is totally cluless because power would be greatly impacted at that point. Most air filters on passenger car gas engines should be changed at around 15 inches (~3.7 kPa). Diesel around 20 inches ( ~5 kPa). The generic method is to do a full out WOT test with a new filter and read the gauge. It may show something or nothing, depending on intake restriction and the scale of the gauge. Then run until it reads 10 inches of water over that reading, not exceeding 15-20. These are good, safe generic numbers for most OE filters. Some aftermarket performance filter mfrs list their own preferred numbers.
 
Originally Posted By: y_p_w
Anyone know the specific reason why air filter changes are needed?

In addition to the insight Jim provided, I'd also suggest that a filter may physically degrade over time, too. Interestingly, though, the G's manual specifies that the air filters are to be replaced by mileage only, not by time.
 
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