A Tesla out of warranty? OMG!

[OneEyeJack]

 

[Mr Nice]

For the same money buy a real car like a Benz, BMW or Lexus.

 

[bullwinkle]

The likely future of all new car purchases??

 

[The Critic]

Meh, nothing in that video is really news or specific to Tesla. GM, BMW, Mercedes and even some of the Japanese makes have required vehicle software updates and/or coding when new components are installed. This is not new news. All he is demonstrating (in the first few minutes) is the usage of the online software portal (similar to GM GDS2, Toyota Techstream, BMW ISTA/P) in conjunction with a J2534 device.

 

[daves87rs]

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

Meh, nothing in that video is really news or specific to Tesla. GM, BMW, Mercedes and even some of the Japanese makes have required vehicle software updates and/or coding when new components are installed. This is not new news. All he is demonstrating (in the first few minutes) is the usage of the online software portal (similar to GM GDS2, Toyota Techstream, BMW ISTA/P) in conjunction with a J2534 device.

He goes on to demonstrate that, apparently despite Mass. Anti-restraint of trade laws, access to at least some of those functions is restricted to authorised body shops. He also says Tesla won't sell him some parts when the equivalent part is available for other makes. That said, I daresay its just an extreme example of a general trend. That doesn't mean that it doesn't somewhat suck. Serious DIY on new cars, and maybe the car itself, is a dying duck. If you want the last quack, you need to get something old.

 

[Ducked]

Here's James May on the future of cars "May said: "The future is not the end of internal combustion, just as we still have steam locomotives for enthusiasts and sailing boats and people ride horses. Cars, as we know them now, will be freed up for people who genuinely love them to drive in certain places — not everywhere because that won't be allowed — but nice places, special roads, circuits, maybe. "We won't have been wasting all that oil on driving people to work because they're going around in their electric pods so it won't seem so bad burning it for purposes of pleasure. The future is full of Ferraris." So he's pretty upbeat. BUT..... while apparently quite a pleasant old guy and a bit of a thinker, he's also quite a rich old guy, and his vision for the future sounds just a tad elitist. I seriously doubt MY future is" full of Ferraris." If I can't afford one now its a fair bet I wont be able to afford one then, and the survivors from the current cheap alternatives will probably cost more than a Ferrari does now.

 

[DdDd]

Teslas are marketed to clever people with a lot of money... IOW, folks who have no interest beyond the warranty period, in essence making the car disposable. Also if you hate fossil fuels badly enough to early adopt a car with $60k with of batteries your mangina is very very very dry. PS that's 612,000 miles of gasoline at 25mpg at current prices. LOL INDEED!!!

 

[Danno]

I live in a smaller city, with a fair amount of Tesla's. Problem is the nearest repair depot is 250 miles away. Everything mechanical has issues that need human intervention. I just don't get the tradeoff at play here. Having procured and managed a small fleet of 100% Ev commercial trucks, all I saw were the frustrations of not having a local dealer.

 

[JeepWJ19]

Originally Posted By: DdDd

Also if you hate fossil fuels badly enough to early adopt a car with $60k with of batteries your mangina is very very very dry. PS that's 612,000 miles of gasoline at 25mpg at current prices. LOL INDEED!!!

Sketchy Tesla aside, what is your schtick against technology that could not f__k up our atmosphere? People didn't think automobiles could replace horses. Thank goodness the markets left those idiots behind. History may be repeating itself.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19

Originally Posted By: DdDd

Also if you hate fossil fuels badly enough to early adopt a car with $60k with of batteries your mangina is very very very dry. PS that's 612,000 miles of gasoline at 25mpg at current prices. LOL INDEED!!!

Sketchy Tesla aside, what is your schtick against technology that could not f__k up our atmosphere? People didn't think automobiles could replace horses. Thank goodness the markets left those idiots behind. History may be repeating itself.

Somebody didn't see that recent pie chart on fossil fuel powered electricity generation, and the weaknesses of the electrical grid re:electric vehicle charging-it is a tech in its infancy-it'll likely be after our lifetimes when it is perfected enough for everyday use, and I'd be surprised if Tesla would be the answer. GM or Toyota seems much more likely.

 

[thooks]

Originally Posted By: DdDd

Teslas are marketed to clever people with a lot of money... IOW, folks who have no interest beyond the warranty period, in essence making the car disposable. Also if you hate fossil fuels badly enough to early adopt a car with $60k with of batteries your mangina is very very very dry. PS that's 612,000 miles of gasoline at 25mpg at current prices. LOL INDEED!!!

You must be one of the smartest people in NY. You sound like you have waaaay too much common sense to live there!!!

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: DdDd

Teslas are marketed to clever people with a lot of money... IOW, folks who have no interest beyond the warranty period, in essence making the car disposable.

Yep. Some wealthy folks just need the latest and greatest trinkets, after 2 years they get rid of it.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19

Originally Posted By: DdDd

Also if you hate fossil fuels badly enough to early adopt a car with $60k with of batteries your mangina is very very very dry. PS that's 612,000 miles of gasoline at 25mpg at current prices. LOL INDEED!!!

Sketchy Tesla aside, what is your schtick against technology that could not f__k up our atmosphere? People didn't think automobiles could replace horses. Thank goodness the markets left those idiots behind. History may be repeating itself.

Building an electric car is worse for our planet that building an ICE car and running it for a lifetime. Exporting environmental damage to another country is not the same as solving an environmental issue. It's a shell game. Nothing but a bunch of feel good bull. As I've said before, the first time a man pointed an arrow at a man holding a gun, the fate of combustion vs. organic power was sealed. It was hundreds of years in the making by the time horse vs. car came around. There has been no such demonstration of supremacy by the battery/electric system.

 

[thooks]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Building an electric car is worse for our planet that building an ICE car and running it for a lifetime.

+1 I really wish people could do some logistical thinking about how items get to market. Ethanol is and always has been a negative BTU fuel. Your average sidewalk junkie in MajorMetroUSA can't figure that term out....it simply means that it takes MORE fuel to produce the ethanol than it puts out. Then there's that whole .667% efficient versus pure gasoline thing....

 

[JeepWJ19]

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle

Originally Posted By: JeepWJ19

Sketchy Tesla aside, what is your schtick against technology that could not f__k up our atmosphere? People didn't think automobiles could replace horses. Thank goodness the markets left those idiots behind. History may be repeating itself.

Somebody didn't see that recent pie chart on fossil fuel powered electricity generation, and the weaknesses of the electrical grid re:electric vehicle charging-it is a tech in its infancy-it'll likely be after our lifetimes when it is perfected enough for everyday use, and I'd be surprised if Tesla would be the answer. GM or Toyota seems much more likely.

Sure, generation and transportation need to go hand-in-hand. No one disagrees with what you said. I saw the EPA charts, with transportation at 27% and electricity generation at 29%. There needs to be improvements everywhere and again, I don't think JUST focusing on electrical vehicles solves the issue, but with only a 2% difference between it and the top contributor (generating electricity) it will make a sizeable dent. I also doubt Tesla would pave the way, and it is indeed in it's infancy, but everything has to start from somewhere.

 

[JeepWJ19]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Building an electric car is worse for our planet that building an ICE car and running it for a lifetime. Exporting environmental damage to another country is not the same as solving an environmental issue. It's a shell game. Nothing but a bunch of feel good bull. As I've said before, the first time a man pointed an arrow at a man holding a gun, the fate of combustion vs. organic power was sealed. It was hundreds of years in the making by the time horse vs. car came around. There has been no such demonstration of supremacy by the battery/electric system.

I am not claiming that producing electrical cars is not damaging to the environment, it's that when looking at thousands of years of data, our planet will increasingly get warmer if our CO2 levels get over 450ppm in the atmosphere. Geologists and other scientists are observing that we are experiencing more intense droughts which pose a threat to crops, animals and freshwater supplies. Cars are only one point and cannot be the only focus. Also, how do you address that we have already reached peak oil? We are consuming oil at a faster pace than it can regenerate. So ultimately we WILL run out, which we can't do much with an internal combustion engine if it doesn't have oil and gas............................................

 

[Alfred_B]

I completely understand the concerns of the people about electricity generation, infrastructure, etc. However, the future will be different. The infrastructure and lifestyles will be different. But as experience has shown us, as a country we have become incapable of adapting to challenges, we simply prefer to live in denial. What the future will look like. Pictured... A test section of world's first photovoltaic expressway opened to traffic Thursday in Jinan city, east China's Shandong Province. It can generate 10 million kWh of electricity per year and melt ice and snow in winter with the thermal patches installed in the road. The next plan is to release electricity to charge electric vehicles traveling above it.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Building an electric car is worse for our planet that building an ICE car and running it for a lifetime. Exporting environmental damage to another country is not the same as solving an environmental issue. It's a shell game. Nothing but a bunch of feel good bull.

Exactly. Once upon a time in my early years of college I was a natural resources major. I had an interest in environmental technology. Many of my professors were very "green" and planet impact conscious. NONE of them drove hybrid or electric cars. One drove a biodiesel powered TDI, and the rest drove older fuel efficient cars such as Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. I remember reading a few studies that they had done, and they had researched down to the PPM how much pollution and environmental impact ICE cars had vs. hybrid vehicles over the course of their useful life. The ICE cars won buy a long shot, especially newer fuel efficient cars with turbos and direct injection. The mining and disposal of materials used in hybrid batteries negated all fuel efficiency claims. This was all before Teslas were popular or even a feasible option, so there wasn't any info on those. The lowest impact scenario from their study was to buy a fuel efficient compact car and keep it as long as possible. When I have time I'll do some digging and see if I can post a link to the study.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Building an electric car is worse for our planet that building an ICE car and running it for a lifetime. Exporting environmental damage to another country is not the same as solving an environmental issue. It's a shell game. Nothing but a bunch of feel good bull.

Exactly. Once upon a time in my early years of college I was a natural resources major. I had an interest in environmental technology. Many of my professors were very "green" and planet impact conscious. NONE of them drove hybrid or electric cars. One drove a biodiesel powered TDI, and the rest drove older fuel efficient cars such as Honda Civics and Toyota Corollas. I remember reading a few studies that they had done, and they had researched down to the PPM how much pollution and environmental impact ICE cars had vs. hybrid vehicles over the course of their useful life. The ICE cars won buy a long shot, especially newer fuel efficient cars with turbos and direct injection. The mining and disposal of materials used in hybrid batteries negated all fuel efficiency claims. This was all before Teslas were popular or even a feasible option, so there wasn't any info on those. The lowest impact scenario from their study was to buy a fuel efficient compact car and keep it as long as possible. When I have time I'll do some digging and see if I can post a link to the study.

Well to wheels analysis. I recall coming to similar conclusions, well after reading the analysis that I stumbled across, and ran a TDi for a number of years. Even tried to run B20 when I could. Want to say ethanol would give 1.6 units of energy back for every unit put in--but biodiesel was 3.2 units for every unit put in? something like that. Of course, BD seems to have fallen to the wayside, just like diesels. * Long time ago I came to the conclusion that for any hobby I might like to pick up that I'd need to spend at the same amount (if not more) on accessories as I might on the object of affection. Want to get a kayak? Well, you need a cartop carrier, gloves, lifevest, paddle, ... I'm sure most BITOG'ers know all about how to predict maintenance and repair costs out past 200k, and know for a fact that purchase price can be pretty low in the scheme of things. Or put in other words: expect it to cost $$$ later in life, so plan for it. We'll see how Tesla's age out. Similar dire predictions were made about Prius battery packs and CVT's.