A Tesla out of warranty? OMG!

[OVERKILL]

BTW, Uncle Dave, you touched on the minimum feasible size for a nuclear facility earlier, indicating "nobody would build a 10MW nuclear plant". Interestingly enough, if you haven't been following the SMR idea, that's actually the direction things are headed (though not quite that small).

SMR's are going to be between 60 and 120MW, a small fraction of our present units. But they occupy significantly less space, with each single-unit facility requiring a total area of about 4 acres. A 90MW SMR is supposed to cost around $600 million, or at least that's the price target. The idea of standardized modularity is supposed to simultaneously drive-down cost while driving up safety and scalability. An install can use as few as one units or as many will fit in the space. This is designed to work in conjunction with the philosophy of near-point generation where power is produced close to where its consumed rather than hundreds of miles away. These smaller facilities are also much better suited to work in concert with wind, solar and hydro installs to meet community needs.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The majority here are of the do nothing propose nothing camp. Thats ok.


Upgraded a power station from 2x660MW to 700MW through efficiency improvements alone (more power same coal).
Lead the project to improve overnight turndown performance/flexibility and load range (150MW to 700MW from 320-700)...
Efficiency engineer for half a decade.
Have modelled and installed small scale hydro on riparian flows on dams, and town water supplies.
Overseen biomass co-firing in multiple coal fired pwoer stations.
Modelled solar and auxiliary steam inputs into coal fired power stations
Wrote the contract to obtain process water for a coastal power stationfrom a local sewage farm.
Advocate for fly ash markets, and expanded sales of CCP.

those have all stood on their own feet on a financial basis.

The only project that I have never been able to get off the ground (on it's own feet) is a 4MW solar farm that I've had multiple cracks at over the years...It's not viable until other people's money is accessed.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
It's great to hear that Canada has the nuclear problems all solved but why do they pay so much for renewable power?

I don't like being dismissed when I talk of nuclear safety by the argument using Canada as an example. Any alternative thinking here is shot down as some crazy tree hugger by fossil fuel trolls.


"90% is the target, that will be a gamechanger".

How is shooting down some bum-plucked number that is indefensible by any physical standard being a fossil fuel troll ?

You are fabricating ideas...shooting them down due to physical impossiblility isn't trolling.

Coming up with nonsense COULD be considered trolling 'though.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: UncleDave

For the guys that basically invented it, we do a horrible job at it.


True, but you guys invented it for that whole bomb making business

We went a different direction partly due to the fact we didn't have the ability to enrich Uranium and partly because we had no interest in a nuclear arms program so the goal from the get-go was power generation.


Good point...So much waste stored in pools because it was intended to go into weapons.

Won't even allow it to be reprocessed, through legislation, which only drives up cost and increases the amount of intractable waste.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
I have to LOL at comparing the environmental damage of solar as greater than coal or nuclear.


What's the difference between a lithium mine (for the batteries that solar needs), and a coal mine ?

Area ?

Volume ?

Groundwater and surface water ?

(Oh, and return on energy investment...digging holes should result in the maximum lifecycle energy recovery shouldn't it ?)

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
It's great to hear that Canada has the nuclear problems all solved but why do they pay so much for renewable power?


Northernly climate means solar just isn't as viable.


Your location centrist view does not apply for most of the world.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
It's great to hear that Canada has the nuclear problems all solved but why do they pay so much for renewable power?


Northernly climate means solar just isn't as viable.


Your location centrist view does not apply for most of the world.


It applies to a very significant part of the world actually, including northern states. I know that's hard for an American blowhard who gets off on his own bloviation to palate though

This is the kind of attitude that causes people to dismiss your posts. You want to be taken seriously but then you toss out garbage like this that encourages people to do quite the opposite.

Perhaps a map of the world with the parallels on it would help you?

Southwestern Ontario is below the 45th parallel, but even if you go from the 45th parallel up, it cuts off not only most of Canada, but most of France, the UK, Russia....etc. That's a rather massive portion of the globe for you to dismiss.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
BTW, Uncle Dave, you touched on the minimum feasible size for a nuclear facility earlier, indicating "nobody would build a 10MW nuclear plant". Interestingly enough, if you haven't been following the SMR idea, that's actually the direction things are headed (though not quite that small).

SMR's are going to be between 60 and 120MW, a small fraction of our present units. But they occupy significantly less space, with each single-unit facility requiring a total area of about 4 acres. A 90MW SMR is supposed to cost around $600 million, or at least that's the price target. The idea of standardized modularity is supposed to simultaneously drive-down cost while driving up safety and scalability. An install can use as few as one units or as many will fit in the space. This is designed to work in conjunction with the philosophy of near-point generation where power is produced close to where its consumed rather than hundreds of miles away. These smaller facilities are also much better suited to work in concert with wind, solar and hydro installs to meet community needs.


Id love to see in general hwo you guys choose to do it as a whole.

Ive got s soft spot for Cannucks Im practically Canadian myself having married 2 quebecois (no not at the same time) and lived in Montreal for years.

I know you got a bunch of hydro turbines from GE, but don't know a thing about your Nuke programs.

We've been talking about micro/ mini reactors here since I been a kid and regulatory always held it back. At one point a couple years ago Lockmart claimed thane had a microfusion reactor

if you got em pump me some links so I can "edumicate" myself on your "Northern ways"



UD

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
The majority here are of the do nothing propose nothing camp. Thats ok.


Upgraded a power station from 2x660MW to 700MW through efficiency improvements alone (more power same coal).
Lead the project to improve overnight turndown performance/flexibility and load range (150MW to 700MW from 320-700)...
Efficiency engineer for half a decade.
Have modelled and installed small scale hydro on riparian flows on dams, and town water supplies.
Overseen biomass co-firing in multiple coal fired pwoer stations.
Modelled solar and auxiliary steam inputs into coal fired power stations
Wrote the contract to obtain process water for a coastal power stationfrom a local sewage farm.
Advocate for fly ash markets, and expanded sales of CCP.

those have all stood on their own feet on a financial basis.

The only project that I have never been able to get off the ground (on it's own feet) is a 4MW solar farm that I've had multiple cracks at over the years...It's not viable until other people's money is accessed.


Pretty solid - increment the electricity gain with planned upgrades.

Using treated effluence as a cooling medium sure sounds better than turning into tap water which I've seen proposed elsewhere.

A solar input stream to a coal plant is an interesting efficiency boost idea-

Any thoughts on oil independence? Pretty much 70-75 % of our barrel imports goes to transportation - Hows that use down under?


UD

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
BTW, Uncle Dave, you touched on the minimum feasible size for a nuclear facility earlier, indicating "nobody would build a 10MW nuclear plant". Interestingly enough, if you haven't been following the SMR idea, that's actually the direction things are headed (though not quite that small).

SMR's are going to be between 60 and 120MW, a small fraction of our present units. But they occupy significantly less space, with each single-unit facility requiring a total area of about 4 acres. A 90MW SMR is supposed to cost around $600 million, or at least that's the price target. The idea of standardized modularity is supposed to simultaneously drive-down cost while driving up safety and scalability. An install can use as few as one units or as many will fit in the space. This is designed to work in conjunction with the philosophy of near-point generation where power is produced close to where its consumed rather than hundreds of miles away. These smaller facilities are also much better suited to work in concert with wind, solar and hydro installs to meet community needs.


Id love to see in general hwo you guys choose to do it as a whole.

Ive got s soft spot for Cannucks Im practically Canadian myself having married 2 quebecois (no not at the same time) and lived in Montreal for years.

I know you got a bunch of hydro turbines from GE, but don't know a thing about your Nuke programs.

We've been talking about micro/ mini reactors here since I been a kid and regulatory always held it back. At one point a couple years ago Lockmart claimed thane had a microfusion reactor

if you got em pump me some links so I can "edumicate" myself on your "Northern ways"



UD


The Canadian Nuclear FAQ is an excellent place to start, you can FIND IT HERE. It will teach you more than you ever wanted to know about CANDU

My grandfather and great grandfather were both hydro-electric Engineers for GE. There are a pile of patents with my great grandfather's name on them, mostly relating to turbine cooling design. GE and GE Nuclear (then GE Hitachi Nuclear and now BWXT Canada) is local. The GE plant is actually being shut down this year putting a pile of people out of work. Nuclear however is carrying on, as BWXT is actively involved in our nuclear refurbishments.

 

[UncleDave]

Well telsa haters should be happy!

The great state of California just squeezed them into either unionizing with UAW workers in exchange for any state incentives to buy their product which is currently 2500 per car and HOV rights.

Will be interesting to see what Musk does here.


UD

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Garak - I don't think one size fits all in that comment.

It wasn't meant to. Scaling up is where the big problem is. There are farms here and acreages and so forth that use solar on a small scale, but they often have little more power requirements than an ordinary house (assuming it's not a dairy farm or something like that) and a fair bit of extra space for a few panels and storage batteries.

The point I'm making is that there are those out there who think solar can solve all of our energy problems. However, it's been pointed out how much space would be taken up by this, and that's not trivial even as you approach theoretical efficiency limits. Despite conservation efforts, the world uses more energy, so we're not going to need less solar real estate. We'd need more. The point I was making is that as this gets scaled up and up, which is necessary, it gets difficult.

My solar powered watch or solar powered calculator are great conveniences and the solar collection is unobtrusive for them. Of course, that's not always the case as you ramp it up. Ramp it up to a Dyson sphere, and that'll be the most obtrusive thing you can imagine.

Personally, in the near term, the nuclear solution is among the most helpful. In this province, we use a lot of coal. We have some hydroelectric, but that's got limited potential in this province, and trying to "force" the issue with nature here isn't environmentally benign, either. We have some wind, but the NIMBY crowd had already attacked that mercilessly, despite our ridiculously low population density. And, despite that low population density, there isn't an abundance of land here that's simply "doing nothing," to be used for solar panels; that is, unless, of course, you go way up north, cut down trees (which would make everyone so happy, right), and have this stuff covered with snow and shorter winter days yet and totally out of reach for ordinary maintenance protocols.

Honestly, as it is, our province's problem isn't generation so much. Pollution isn't even nearly the issue, given our population density. It's ageing infrastructure and trying to service that over a huge area. No matter what solution is chosen, or combinations of solutions, it's going to be expensive.

Overkill: Fusion hasn't been coming next month for the last 20 years, try about 35 or 40, at least! I remember that all through my childhood, too.

Also, with respect to nuclear safety in the States, Rickover seemed to oversee a pretty amazing program in the USN. So, when Americans say that they can't do nuclear as well and as safely as should be expected, I would say they're selling themselves short.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Well telsa haters should be happy!

The great state of California just squeezed them into either unionizing with UAW workers in exchange for any state incentives to buy their product which is currently 2500 per car and HOV rights.

Will be interesting to see what Musk does here.


UD



Government decided not to hand a multi-billion dollar company a free lunch.

I don't see the problem here.

He's a big fan of lone-wolfing things. He should hardly be chagrined.

 

[UncleDave]

Gm blamed the bankruptcy at least partially on the UAW.

You've all seen videos of them "working" - compare to german lineup....

Government dictating hiring through lobbyists.

Will be interesting to see what he does.

UD

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

Read the book Crash Course. Gives a good overview on how the US auto industry was ruined with help from everyone from the bosses to the UAW.

 

[Shannow]

Isn't Musk pushing for basic universal income ?

(paid for by someone else of course).

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Isn't Musk pushing for basic universal income ?

(paid for by someone else of course).


So far he and I diverge here....

UD

 

[DoubleWasp]

I'm guessing Elon Musk has one of those deals with the pull string that makes animal noises based on what animal the spinning arrow lands on.

He'll make his decision based on that.

Not surprised nobody wants anything to do with the UAW. But given the idiots they all worked for, it's hard to place blame.

I'm guessing the capitalist in him wants to ditch the UAW and give up the government handout.

The wacky futurist is him wants to invite the UAW in and have them wear robes, drink koolaid, and examine their "digital selves".

The businessman in him wants to find out how to increase the handout, ditch the UAW, and then find a way to make California the bad guy, and he the hero.

 

[UncleDave]

Nice entertaining run down of his conundrums..!

Will be fun to watch in any case.


UD

 

[JHZR2]

This seems to have gone completely off the rails. Lock time.