A Tesla out of warranty? OMG!

[Mr Nice]

For the money... a BMW or Benz is a much better deal for the money.

Lots of hospitals now have charging stations for their doctor's Teslas. One hospital in Orlando looks like a Tesla dealership.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
For the money... a BMW or Benz is a much better deal for the money.

Lots of hospitals now have charging stations for their doctor's Teslas. One hospital in Orlando looks like a Tesla dealership.


Oh man … we have a doctor here with H1/H2/H3 Hummers … all of them seriously outfitted …

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
What it looks like up close



That says it is 2Km long, earlier you said it was 1Km? That's important because it relates to our output discussion earlier.

 

[Alfred_B]

Yes, some sources on my search today said 2km. Earlier what I saw said 1km.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Yes, some sources on my search today said 2km. Earlier what I saw said 1km.


If it is indeed 2Km, then we've cut our usefulness in half. Will also be interesting to see how usage impacts output as well.

 

[DdDd]

When they figure out an easily recyclable battery that doesn't cost $thousands per gallon of stored energy electric cars will be yuuuge!

$50k for ten gallons of gas on a battery technology that is guaranteed to age over five years even if you never use it is dumb dumb dumb.

That plus the proprietary systems these cars run on makes EVs a very silly decision at the moment.

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
For the money... a BMW or Benz is a much better deal for the money.




True.

But, to quote Clarkson (ooer) that's a bit like saying Gonorrhea is a much better venereal disease than Syphilis

 

[Ducked]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Yes, some sources on my search today said 2km. Earlier what I saw said 1km.


Perhaps 2km if both lanes are counted separately. Lane direction is sometimes a bit er..informal in China anyway

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
I completely understand the concerns of the people about electricity generation, infrastructure, etc.

However, the future will be different. The infrastructure and lifestyles will be different. But as experience has shown us, as a country we have become incapable of adapting to challenges, we simply prefer to live in denial.

What the future will look like. Pictured... A test section of world's first photovoltaic expressway opened to traffic Thursday in Jinan city, east China's Shandong Province.
It can generate 10 million kWh of electricity per year and melt ice and snow in winter with the thermal patches installed in the road.
The next plan is to release electricity to charge electric vehicles traveling above it.



10 million kWh sounds like a lot until you realize that is 0.01TWh, and China currently produces 4,100TWh with coal.

Wonder what the replacement schedule is going to look like when the panels die? Wonder how maintenance on dead cells and inverters is going to work?

PV seems to be the wet dream of some people

Not me.


I wonder how they will hold up to snowplows and salt.

 

[Shannow]

It's a potentially wonderful use of finite and mined resources.

https://www.sciencealert.com/solar-roads-in-the-netherlands-are-working-even-better-than-expected

Quote:
The Netherlands made headlines last year when it built the world's first solar road - an energy-harvesting bike path paved with glass-coated solar panels.

Now, six months into the trial, engineers say the system is working even better than expected, with the 70-metre test bike path generating 3,000 kWh, or enough electricity to power a small household for a year.


Note, it's a bike path...so is optimised for that plus the solar use...

Lets be conservative and say that the road is 1.5m wide...that's 105 square metres.

https://mozaw.com/solar-insolation-map-netherlands/

Let's also say that the path is put in the second worst place in the Netherlands...1,000KWh insolation per square meter per annum.

105 square metres...times 1,000KWh per square metre, that's 105,000KWh per annum.

the road generates a MASSIVE (well they hyped it up in the article) 3,000KWh for the year (enough to power a small household)...that's 3,000/105,000 = 2.9% efficiency.

Seriously, if we are going to dig up the world in the name of green, we can do better than solar roads...

 

[Shannow]

re the Chinese road...

https://www.ecowatch.com/china-solar-highway-2520728544.html

Quote:
China's new solar road consists of an insulating layer on the bottom, photovoltaic panels in the middle, and transparent concrete on top.

The solar panels cover 5,875 square meters and can generate 1 million kilowatt-hours of power in a year, or enough to meet the energy demands of about 800 homes, Qilu Transportation Development Group, the project developer, claimed.

If the technology proves effective, the electricity generated by the panels could power everything from street lights to signboards, and even a snow-melting system on the road. Excess energy can get sent to state grid.

"The project will save the space for building solar farms and shorten the transmission distance," said Xu Chunfu, the group's chairman.

But this special road—which China has hailed as the "world's first photovoltaic highway"—is designed to do a lot more than just harness the sun's rays for electricity and allow cars to get from A to B.

The site also serves as a clean energy lab to test other technologies, including wireless charging for electric vehicles and providing internet connection.

As intriguing as the project sounds, solar roads have been dismissed by critics as too expensive for practical use. China's road costs about $458 per square meter, which is much more expensive than, say, traditional asphalt.


Again, to be generous, let's give it the upper range of it's annual insolation

https://solargis.com/assets/graphic/free-map/DNI/Solargis-China-DNI-solar-resource-map-en.png

1,200 KWh per square meter per annum...

14% efficiency...that estimate THROUGH semi transparent concrete is rubbish...chains being pulled.

But per the snow plow comments...

http://chinaplus.cri.cn/news/china/9/20171228/70956.html

Quote:
In winter, the photovoltaic highway can turn the solar power it generates into heat so that snow and ice on the road can be melted away, helping to improve driver safety.


Give it a 25 year generating life...25GWh...5875 square metres, times $458 per square metre.

$107/MWh...wholesale of course...and before we use it to melt the snow that builds up on them.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yeah...that sounds like (at best) fuzzy math.

 

[Ducked]

Quote:
In winter, the photovoltaic highway can turn the solar power it generates into heat so that snow and ice on the road can be melted away, helping to improve driver safety.


Give it a 25 year generating life...25GWh...5875 square metres, times $458 per square metre.
$107/MWh...wholesale of course...and before we use it to melt the snow that builds up on them.
[/quote]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Yeah...that sounds like (at best) fuzzy math.


Never mind the arithmetic, what about the bollocks?

Consider the logic of "the photovoltaic highway can turn the solar power it generates into heat"

They are turning sunshine into heat?

So if they didn't bother, what would it turn into?

Perhaps they're actually talking about direct thermal storage in the structure, (as opposed to electrical storage and then heating, which sounds inneficient).

Some sort of greenhouse effect of the translucent "concrete"?

 

[SHOZ]

Of course we all know the solar panels are at the peak of their efficiency and will never get better......

 

[4WD]

Flew into China a few months ago and don’t think much solar anything was reaching ground level … from the airplane window it looked like and old “brown and white” photo from my great grandfather’s cedar chest … mile after mile of this … and hundreds of flat top roofs …

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Of course we all know the solar panels are at the peak of their efficiency and will never get better......

It needs to get a LOT better, like several orders of magnitude.

 

[SHOZ]

90% is the goal. A true game changer....

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
90% is the goal. A true game changer....


That's a long way to go from Shannow's 2.9% for the solar path in the Netherlands.

And then there's the life expectancy issue.

Nuke plants are roughly 60 years, the new ones are supposed to be ~90. Bruce Nuclear will be close to 100 by the time it is retired. So their life expectancy is tied to how much a utility is willing to invest to keep the plant operational. The generating medium itself doesn't just up and die.

Hydro-electric dams can last hundreds of years, a turbine refresh can increase output, actually making the dam more efficient over time.

Both of those non-carbon sources are the main competitors to intermittent wind and solar with their 20-30 year life expectancy and fractional output relative to nameplate. On top of that, next generation near-use nuclear may be an absolute game changer in the next few years, a technology I'm quite excited about.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Of course we all know the solar panels are at the peak of their efficiency and will never get better......

well burying them under "transparent" concrete isn't helping that is it ?

Why mine and waste the resources by intentionally blinding them ?

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
90% is the goal. A true game changer....


Based on what ?

Where do you get this target from, or is it another "future fact plucked from your posterior"...

Just in case you actually DO have an audience on BITOG, who is impressed by your "buggy whip" strawman, and absolute lack of factual information sharing...

Here's the trend of solar panel efficiencies over time...

https://sites.lafayette.edu/egrs352-sp14-pv/technology/history-of-pv-technology/

Look at the trend, and what changes need to be made to get to your "game changing" 90%.

It's going to require a whole different ballpark, not a different game...all new rules of physics...

But lest I be accused of buggy whipping...
* please educate us on your 90%, where dos the number come from, and how is it achieved, given the existing and current trend in solar efficiency.
* please review the math that I used to come up with the ACTUAL efficiencies of the installtions, using the numbers that the proponents themselves provided.

 

[SHOZ]

Ha how can you argue against what is possible in the future? Truly got the blinders on. Last I heard they were up to 30%.

Here's some at 44%.....


https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/08/this-is-the-most-efficient-solar-panel-ever-made