A Tesla Model S on auto-pilot was in a fatal crash

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Originally Posted By: Shannow
In the '80s I read some articles about 55MPH speed limits failing to engage drivers sufficiently, and leading to higher accident rates. At work, a new control space for the operators is being designed, and it takes a very careful balancing act between being active enough that they are alert at all times, but passive enough that they aren't "peaking" for a 12 hour shift. Same here, take away stimulation, and the driver's brain will go off and do something else...
No, it was wrong. It was very clear that 55 MPH sped limit in US in the 70's and 80's did save life from previous decades when speed limit was higher. If you look at fatal accidents a decade before 55 MPH and a decade during 55 MPH period you will see that 55MPH did save live. We had less fatal accidents in the last 10-20 years was mainly safer vehicles. More people are wearing seat belt and this alone save may lives, airbag saves many life too. Also, other safety features(ABS, better tire ...) invented/implemented the last 20 years reduced many accidents and save many life too.
 
NEXT...you should have :yawn: bet a dinner on there being "NO" studies on driver inattention and automation... http://www.alertdriving.com/home/fleet-alert-magazine/international/Is-Cruise-Control-Dangerous
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Speed limiters can promote drowsiness and inattention, a study finds. Drivers who use cruise control and speed-limiting devices know they can provide real benefits, particularly driver comfort and compliance with speed limits. But a new study suggests a downside to these aids. Drivers have less control overtaking other vehicles and managing the direction of their own vehicles, and have longer reaction times. The study, which measured the effects of cruise control and speed-limiting devices on driver vigilance and behaviour, was released by the French based VINCI Autoroutes Foundation for Responsible Driving. “The less work the driver has to do, the less alert he will be behind the wheel,” said Bernadette Moreau, General Delegate of the Foundation, which researches hazardous driving behaviours. “It is widely known that these tools are very effective to maintain safe speeds, but call for user savviness and awareness” to be safe.
http://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/91858/1/DDI_2015_LOUW_et_al.pdf
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This driving simulator study, conducted as part of the EC-funded AdaptIVe project, investigated the effect of level of distraction during automation (Level 2 SAE) on drivers’ ability to assess automation uncertainty and react to a potential collision scenario. Drivers’ attention to the road was varied during automation in one of two driving screen manipulation conditions: occlusion by light fog and occlusion by heavy fog. Vehicle-based measures, drivers’ eye movements and response profiles to events after an automation uncertainty period were measured during a highly automated drive containing one of these manipulations, and compared to manual driving. In two of seven uncertainty events, a lead vehicle braked, causing a critical situation. Drivers' reactions to these critical events were compared in a between-subjects design, where the driving scene was manipulated for 1.5 minutes. Results showed that, during automation, drivers’ response profile to a potential collision scenario wa s less controlled and more aggressive immediately after the transition, compared to when they were in manual control. With respect to screen manipulation in particular, drivers in the heavy fog condition collided with the lead vehicle more often and also had a lower minimum headway compared to those in the light fog condition
Is two more then none ?
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
No, it was wrong. It was very clear that 55 MPH sped limit in US in the 70's and 80's did save life from previous decades when speed limit was higher. If you look at fatal accidents a decade before 55 MPH and a decade during 55 MPH period you will see that 55MPH did save live.
Again, you are missing the point...yes, fatalities dropped, while non fatal and injury crashes rose. There were more crashes, but at a lower speed, less fatalities.
 
I am asking is there study that shows 55 MPH speed limit in US cause more death than 70-75 MPH decade before ? Is there study shows that cruise control usage causes more accidents than without ? Show me a statistic of either cases. I am a user of cruise control on long trips, when traffic is getting heavy I dis-engage it and control the speed myself. My leg was fresh from relaxing all those minutes/hours with cruise control on I could easily handle traffic even after 3-4 hours driving. As I said, a study of one or few person doesn't make it applicable to general public. I am searching for death rate in US for years before 55 MPH speed limit of the 70's and during the 55 MPH speed limit period. This will debunk your reading about 55 MPH speed limit results in more death in US in the 70's and 80's. And this will debunk other studies you posted.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I am asking is there study that shows 55 MPH speed limit in US cause more death than 70-75 MPH decade before ?
That's "look over there, a bunny", when I said
Originally Posted By: Shannow
In the '80s I read some articles about 55MPH speed limits failing to engage drivers sufficiently, and leading to higher accident rates.
Don't ask ME to provide evidence for YOUR question which is different to what I offered...strawman
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I am searching for death rate in US for years before 55 MPH speed limit of the 70's and during the 55 MPH speed limit period. This will debunk your reading about 55 MPH speed limit results in more death in US in the 70's and 80's. And this will debunk other studies you posted.
Here is a summary of the 55 MPH death rate compares with the year before and the year after.
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The limit's effect on highway safety is unclear. During the time the law was enacted and after it was repealed automobile fatalities decreased,[14] and this was widely attributed mainly to automobile safety improvements, owing to an increase in the safety of cars themselves.[15] This decrease in fatalities from automobile accidents makes figuring out the actual impact of the law difficult. According to the National Research Council, there was a decrease in fatalities of about 4000 lives in the first year after the law took effect.[15][16] Later, the National Academies wrote that there is "a strong link between vehicle speed and crash severity [which] supports the need for setting maximum limits on high-speed roads," but that "the available data do not provide an adequate basis for precisely quantifying the effects that changes in speed limits have on driving speeds, safety, and travel time on different kinds of roads.
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Insurance Institute for Highway Safety workers wrote three papers that argue that increase from 55 to 65 mph (90 to 105 km/h) on rural roads led to a 25% to 30% increase in deaths (1/3 from increased travel, 2/3 from increased speed)[16] while the full repeal in 1995 led to a further 15% increase to fatalities.[16] In contrasting work, researchers at University of California Transportation Science Center argue that the interstates in question are only part of the equation, one also must account for traffic moving off the relatively more dangerous country roads and onto the relatively safer interstates. Accounting for this they find that raising rural speed limits to 65 mph (105 km/h) caused a 3.4% to 5.1% decrease in fatalities.[19]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I am asking is there study that shows 55 MPH speed limit in US cause more death than 70-75 MPH decade before ?
That's "look over there, a bunny", when I said
Originally Posted By: Shannow
In the '80s I read some articles about 55MPH speed limits failing to engage drivers sufficiently, and leading to higher accident rates.
Don't ask ME to provide evidence for YOUR question which is different to what I offered...strawman
There is no evidence of 55MPH speed limit cause more accidents, only evidence I found is 55MPH speed limit saves lives.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
In the '80s I read some articles about 55MPH speed limits failing to engage drivers sufficiently, and leading to higher accident rates. At work, a new control space for the operators is being designed, and it takes a very careful balancing act between being active enough that they are alert at all times, but passive enough that they aren't "peaking" for a 12 hour shift. Same here, take away stimulation, and the driver's brain will go off and do something else...
The first full year of 55 MPH speed limit was 1974 Death rate dropped 17% to 45,196 from 54,052 in 1973. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year 1987 and 1988 — 65 mph limit and 1995 — Repeal of federal limits showed little change in death rate fore those years and some years after the changes. In later years death rate continues to spiral downward slowly because of more seat-belt usage and airbag and other new safety devices. The biggest change was the first full year Federal 55 MPH speed limit was enforced in the whole country, it was 1974. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Maximum_Speed_Law
 
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Is there study shows that cruise control usage causes more accidents than without ? Show me a statistic of either cases.
You didn't comment on the two studies that I linked...
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Is there study shows that cruise control usage causes more accidents than without ? Show me a statistic of either cases.
You didn't comment on the two studies that I linked...
This is the answer to the two studies in your linked
Quote:
The first full year of 55 MPH speed limit was 1974 Death rate dropped 17% to 45,196 from 54,052 in 1973.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Is there study shows that cruise control usage causes more accidents than without ? Show me a statistic of either cases.
You didn't comment on the two studies that I linked...
This is the answer to the two studies in your linked
Quote:
The first full year of 55 MPH speed limit was 1974 Death rate dropped 17% to 45,196 from 54,052 in 1973.
LOL, no, the two studies on automation, and taking inputs away from the drivers...so the answer is NO, as you answered something completely different.
 
So... the accident rate dropped in 1974, with slower speed limits; but when the limits rose, the accident rate did not rise? My recollection back in the 90's was that... we actually were driving the same speed, pre- and post-55mph days. Only it was now "ok". Word was the cops, who had been lenient about doing up to 10 over, where going to come down hard on us for doing even 5 over. Times change and now 15 over sometimes doesn't even get a glance from the cruiser in the crossover (well at least during rush-hour). * One nice feature of driving 5 over was that I was *always* scanning the sides of the highway for the fuzz. 5 over, 10 over, whatever. Driving at those speeds usually has me not using cruise, so that I can drop speed when I come into an enforcement zone. Now if I behave I'm much more apt to set cruise to the limit and... zone out. I very much can relate to Shannow's links as to stimulation level. * Back to the Tesla crash: Not sure if this info (from this link or other link) has been mentioned:
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[Joshua D. Brown] was killed May 7 in Williston, Florida, when his car's cameras failed to distinguish the white side of a turning tractor-trailer from a brightly lit sky and didn't automatically activate the brakes, according to statements by the government and the automaker. Brown didn't take control and brake, either. ... Friends described Brown as having a "need for speed," and state records obtained by The Associated Press show he had eight speeding tickets over six years. Terri Lyn Reed, an insurance agent in northeastern Ohio who insured Brown's business, described her friend as "kind of a daredevil" who loved excitement and speed, and was fearless. A former employee of Brown's, Stan Staneski, said Brown drove fast, but he considered him a safe driver. But the truck driver in the wreck, Frank Baressi, 62, of Palm Harbor, Florida, recalled Brown driving quickly when the accident occurred: "He went so fast through my trailer I didn't see him." Baressi also told the AP that Brown was "playing Harry Potter on the TV screen" at the time of the crash. Baressi acknowledged he couldn't see the movie, only heard it. The Florida Highway Patrol confirmed Friday that it found a portable DVD player in Brown's car after the accident, but agency spokeswoman Sgt. Kim Montes said investigators could not confirm whether it was playing when the vehicles made contact. Baressi is the owner of Okemah Express, a trucking company with one truck and one driver, himself. Federal records don't identify drivers by name, but they show Okemah and its driver were cited for seven violations during four traffic stops over the past two years. The most serious violation was in January when a Virginia state inspector ordered the driver off the road for being on duty more than the legal limit of 14 hours in one day. The driver was also cited for ignoring a traffic-control device in March and an improper lane change in December. An inspection last year found the truck's tires were going bald. ... In addition to its cameras, the Model S has radar sensors that could have spotted the trailer. But Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk wrote on Twitter that the radar "tunes out what looks like an overhead road sign to avoid false braking events."
 
Doesn't this same accident happen 20 times a day in normal cars with people texting? Just driving into something while looking down. One of my former neighbors drove off the road while watching a movie on his ipad... He got charged and convicted of a fairly serious offence for it as well.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Doesn't this same accident happen 20 times a day in normal cars with people texting? Just driving into something while looking down. One of my former neighbors drove off the road while watching a movie on his ipad... He got charged and convicted of a fairly serious offence for it as well.
Yeah but... evil technology! Actually, it's sort of a big deal, as the technology under discussion is supposed to fix this sort of thing. By having some bit of automated kit "always being on the lookout". The fact that nothing is ever foolproof, or that mistakes are always made when coming up with something new, is an annoyance in a world where "if it bleeds it leads".
 
Originally Posted By: supton
So... the accident rate dropped in 1974, with slower speed limits; but when the limits rose, the accident rate did not rise?
I think Federal dropped the national speed limit of 55MPH sometime in the 90's. The death rated didn't increase but it didn't decrease either. You need to take into account the safety equipment and others such as better brake, better steering, better tire ... may contribute to lower death rate in 20 years. If you drive an average 1974 car on a test track then an average 1994 car on the same test track, you will be amazed how much better the 1994 car is, in steering, braking ... Summary, lower speed limit doesn't raise accidents nor death rate, and raise speed limit doesn't lower accidents nor death rate.
 
Update: Tesla seems to acknowledge that the current released autopilot at least didn't perform as expected, they accepted from beginning that autopilot didn't detect the crossing tractor-trailer so it didn't apply the brake to stop the car.
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Tesla Motors is working on modifications to its Autopilot system after it failed to stop for a tractor-trailer rig in a Florida crash that killed the driver of a Model S sedan. CEO Elon Musk, in a Twitter post Thursday night, said Tesla is working on improvements to the radar system. Autopilot uses cameras, radar and computers to detect objects and automatically brake if a Tesla vehicle is about to hit something.
Quote:
Just after the crash was made public June 30, Musk gave an indication in a tweet that the radar was discounted in the Florida crash. His tweet, which since has been removed from Twitter, said that radar "tunes out" objects like an overhead road sign to avoid stopping the car for no reason. Experts say this means that the radar likely overlooked the tractor-trailer in the Florida crash. Thursday, Musk tweeted that the company is working on changes that would "decouple" the Autopilot's radar from its cameras and allow the radar to spot objects with fewer data points. Car sensors produce so much data that computers can't process it all. So fewer data points are needed for self-driving systems to work.[/b]
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Experts contacted by The Associated Press say it's clear that Musk is focusing on the radar so his cars spot tractor-trailers in similar circumstances. "It kind of strikes me that they're figuring out how to solve that problem," said Timothy Carone, an information technology and analytics professor at the University of Notre Dame business school. Radar can see through bright sunlight, rain, snow and other things that can block the sight of cameras, so it makes sense that Tesla would try to emphasize radar more after the Florida crash, said Raj Rajkumar, a computer engineering professor at Carnegie Mellon University who leads its autonomous vehicle research. The cars' software would have to be updated so it considers the radar data and determines if obstacles are in the way, Rajkumar said.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/tesla-working-autopilot-radar-crash-40635979 It will not surprise me that the driver's family will fill a wrongful death lawsuit against Tesla after final police accident report, and Tesla will most likely settle out of court.
 
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