A Tesla Model S on auto-pilot was in a fatal crash

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Originally Posted By: 02SE
95.36% of statistics are made up..
sources ??? I thought that it was only 92.57%
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Who still uses a DVD player? It's almost as outdated as a VHS.
Me. Also still use a 27" CRT television.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Agreed. But the people pushing for automated cars are full of themselves and obviously too confident in the technology. Musk himself said that his autopilot is probably better than an average driver. Looks like it is not.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver. There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less. If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time. But I think in this accident Tesla autopilot is at fault.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
You really think people believe those garbage statistics? There aren't enough cars to get that many miles experience. This is Numbskull stuff.
How do you know "there aren't enough cars to get that many miles experience" ? Do you have any proof of what you claim ? Until someone have proof that Tesla lied about that many miles autopilot had been on, it is the number I use.
How do I know? Because, I'm smarter than you. By a bunch. Look at how many cars have the feature and figure it out for yourself. Its a brand new feature.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
How do I know? Because, I'm smarter than you. By a bunch. Look at how many cars have the feature and figure it out for yourself. Its a brand new feature.
What-ever you say. As far as I know you don't have a clue about how many Tesla vehicles have autopilot feature and how often it is used by drivers. Only Tesla has those data and so far nobody disputed heir claim of 130 million miles of autopilot had been in used until the accident last May. I think NHTSA may demand data log in their investigation about safety of autopilot. Only then we will know if Tesla claim of 130 millions miles is true or not. If you're as smart as you claim, why not hack into Tesla data base to get the autopilot usage and post it here.
 
Originally Posted By: Excel
Why would Tesla want the liability of being the driver? Seems like a recipe for disaster.
All manufactures are working on autonomous driving. Tesla wants to be first and they paid the price. But this feature may help them selling few more cars.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: 02SE
95.36% of statistics are made up..
sources ??? I thought that it was only 92.57%
It varies, depending on Moon Phase and Time Zone.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
[. If you're as smart as you claim,
Smart enough not to buy stock in that over hyped company. Your constant pumping of Tesla is getting old. I would bet they had less than a million miles on that software version. And new bugs do get introduced in old parts of the program when the program grows.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Agreed. But the people pushing for automated cars are full of themselves and obviously too confident in the technology. Musk himself said that his autopilot is probably better than an average driver. Looks like it is not.
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver. There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less. If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time. But I think in this accident Tesla autopilot is at fault.
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
You really think people believe those garbage statistics? There aren't enough cars to get that many miles experience. This is Numbskull stuff.
How do you know "there aren't enough cars to get that many miles experience" ? Do you have any proof of what you claim ? Until someone have proof that Tesla lied about that many miles autopilot had been on, it is the number I use.
How do I know? Because, I'm smarter than you. By a bunch. Look at how many cars have the feature and figure it out for yourself. Its a brand new feature.
we're taking a break from playing cards, and having a few laughs here. typical turtle posts -- just can't play nice with others. do you really think that you're smart ?(rhetorical question)your not-playing-nice-with-others posts are hilarious. keep up the good work, and have a good night. 'gotta go.... our steaks are ready.
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
http://electrek.co/2016/04/11/google-self-driving-car-tesla-autopilot/ Here is a decent article about Google vs Tesla self driving car (note this is older and before Tesla has been racking up the miles). The number cited by Tesla is likely accurate but the system is more like fancy cruise control vs true self driving car (i.e. able to drive in the city stop and go).
They don't believe the mileage total either. When first introducing the new features, CEO Elon Musk said that Tesla’s fleet was adding about 1 million miles of data every day, which indicates that the company might be pulling data even when the system is not actively controlling the car.
 
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/disciplin...tle-editor-pick
Quote:
This shows a really major mindset error. Humanity doesn't work the way that Tesla insists here. Not just in keeping our hands on the wheel when not strictly required from one millisecond to the next, but also, in keeping our minds engaged with the task of driving when not strictly required to do so. I don't know anyone who has taken dozens of long trips in automobiles equipped with "cruise control" who doesn't have at least one story about the driver having to slam the brakes on to prevent a collision due to stopped or slowed traffic ahead. I'm not talking about distracted driving here. It's not a smart phone problem or a texting while driving problem, or even a hands-free or hands-not-free dialing problem. It's the absence of mindedness. The way humans actually work is that our minds remain occupied even if not necessarily occupied by the task at hand. If the task at hand does not require constant attention, such as washing dishes or sweeping floors or driving a long distance, then the fraction of mind-share not required by that task will occupy itself in some other way. For many of us the alternative use of mind-share is "processing", as in, digesting and integrating recent experiences in the context of less recent experiences. For many it's "day dreaming", which is more creative. In no case will someone whose mind is not required to engage in the task at hand nevertheless remain fully engaged in that task for hours without end. This goes to the heart of why I feel that my passengers and I, and everybody else, are safer when I am driving a vehicle that has a manual transmission and a "clutch", than when I am driving with an automatic transmission. I'd like to see rear-end collision statistics divided up by the kind of transmission the striking vehicle had, rather than just by the age or experience or safety record of the driver as is usually done.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
[. If you're as smart as you claim,
Smart enough not to buy stock in that over hyped company. Your constant pumping of Tesla is getting old. I would bet they had less than a million miles on that software version. And new bugs do get introduced in old parts of the program when the program grows.
1. If you're smart enough you should buy 10,000 shares Tesla stock when it was IPO at $20 in June 2010 or as low as $15 in July 2010. 2. I do like Tesla as an American company, it designs/engineers/manufactures car here in US, sale some of it in US and export some of it to oversea. As an American car manufacture it is better than GM and Ford in term of outsource car manufacture to outside US and import cars back into US to make profit. This is my opinion, you may not agree or you may think that GM and Ford and Chrysler have cars manufactured in Mexico is better than made in US, then you have all the right to hate Tesla. I am not pumping Tesla in this accident, I just discussion about the accident and post what they claimed. Remember, I did post that Test is at least partially responsible for the horrible accident. I also posted that autopilot didn't designed to handle the cross traffic. 3. I would bet $50 dinner for two if you can produce a valid document to support your claim of "[i]I would bet they had less than a million miles on that software version[/i]" If I lose I will mail you a check of $50 for you to take your wife out for dinner. If I win you just contribution $50 to your favorite charity. It is very simple, put your money where your mouth is. I even give you the incentive: If you can produce any legitimate document shows that the mileage of that software(autopilot) is less than 10 times what you claimed, i.e., 10 million miles, I gave you 1,000% error rate, want to take the bet ?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
[. If you're as smart as you claim,
Smart enough not to buy stock in that over hyped company. Your constant pumping of Tesla is getting old. I would bet they had less than a million miles on that software version. And new bugs do get introduced in old parts of the program when the program grows.
1. If you're smart enough you should buy 10,000 shares Tesla stock when it was IPO at $20 in June 2010 or as low as $15 in July 2010. 2. I do like Tesla as an American company, it designs/engineers/manufactures car here in US, sale some of it in US and export some of it to oversea. As an American car manufacture it is better than GM and Ford in term of outsource car manufacture to outside US and import cars back into US to make profit. This is my opinion, you may not agree or you may think that GM and Ford and Chrysler have cars manufactured in Mexico is better than made in US, then you have all the right to hate Tesla. I am not pumping Tesla in this accident, I just discussion about the accident and post what they claimed. Remember, I did post that Test is at least partially responsible for the horrible accident. I also posted that autopilot didn't designed to handle the cross traffic. 3. I would bet $50 dinner for two if you can produce a valid document to support your claim of "[i]I would bet they had less than a million miles on that software version[/i]" If I lose I will mail you a check of $50 for you to take your wife out for dinner. If I win you just contribution $50 to your favorite charity. It is very simple, put your money where your mouth is. I even give you the incentive: If you can produce any legitimate document shows that the mileage of that software(autopilot) is less than 10 times what you claimed, i.e., 10 million miles, I gave you 1,000% error rate, want to take the bet ?
A valid document? Crooks don't keep records of their lies. This is not like the movies where all the corruption and deceit is all on a spreadsheet on a USB stick. Use your head. Look at how many cars are out there and when the feature began. Consider the price of the car and that they don't get driven around a lot. So many chumps in the world.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/disciplin...tle-editor-pick
Quote:
This shows a really major mindset error. Humanity doesn't work the way that Tesla insists here. Not just in keeping our hands on the wheel when not strictly required from one millisecond to the next, but also, in keeping our minds engaged with the task of driving when not strictly required to do so. I don't know anyone who has taken dozens of long trips in automobiles equipped with "cruise control" who doesn't have at least one story about the driver having to slam the brakes on to prevent a collision due to stopped or slowed traffic ahead. I'm not talking about distracted driving here. It's not a smart phone problem or a texting while driving problem, or even a hands-free or hands-not-free dialing problem. It's the absence of mindedness.
I am totally disagree with the author in this statement. I used cruise control more often on long trip, I never had to slam the brake while on cruise control for anything. I did slam the brake while not on cruise control because of heavy traffic to avoid a collision due to stopped or slowed traffic ahead.
Quote:
In no case will someone whose mind is not required to engage in the task at hand nevertheless remain fully engaged in that task for hours without end. This goes to the heart of why I feel that my passengers and I, and everybody else, are safer when I am driving a vehicle that has a manual transmission and a "clutch", than when I am driving with an automatic transmission. I'd like to see rear-end collision statistics divided up by the kind of transmission the striking vehicle had, rather than just by the age or experience or safety record of the driver as is usually done.
Totally wrong here too, I don't think I am safer while driving my S2000 with manual transmission compares with automatic transmission in my E430 or LS400. Two critical wrong opinions makes me mistrust the author and his study.
 
Originally Posted By: turtlevette
A valid document? Crooks don't keep records of their lies. This is not like the movies where all the corruption and deceit is all on a spreadsheet on a USB stick. Use your head. Look at how many cars are out there and when the feature began. Consider the price of the car and that they don't get driven around a lot. So many chumps in the world.
Remember that I didn't claim any mileage with Tesla autopilot. You are the one who claim Tesla has no more than 1 million miles with autopilot. If you make this claim then you should be the one who need to produce document/data to support your claim. I even give the benefit of exaggeration by give you 1,000% error rate on your claim, I gave you 10 million miles instead of only 1 million. Produce any legitimate document. As I said, put your money where your mouth is, put $50 on the table or shut up. I will not gain anything on this bet, either you and your spouse have a dinner on me or your favorite charity has $50 from you(and you can claim this charity contribution on your income tax). PS I gave you 5,000% error rate, 50 million miles instead of 1 million miles. Accept the bet ?
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I don't buy Tesla claim that driver and autopilot couldn't see the tractor-trailer because of bright sun light. According to Florida police report the car travels West bound away from the sun at 4:40 PM on May 07. This fact alone is telling me the autopilot didn't work, it should see the tractor first before the trailer http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesla-fatal-crash-investigation.html About the DVD player and movie, it is not clear if model S driver is watching a movie on it.
After seeing the police's graph of the accident I said that "autopilot didn't work". This confirm my belief:
Quote:
Electrek got its hands on a statement from a Mobileye executive, who explained that the Automatic Emergency Braking system is only capable of protecting drivers from rear-end collisions, not lateral collisions (as was the case in this crash). Here’s the full statement regarding the crash from Dan Galves, Mobileye’s Chief Communications Officer, provided by Electrek: “We have read the account of what happened in this case. Today’s collision avoidance technology, or Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) is defined as rear-end collision avoidance, and is designed specifically for that. This incident involved a laterally crossing vehicle, which current-generation AEB systems are not designed to actuate upon. Mobileye systems will include Lateral Turn Across Path (LTAP) detection capabilities beginning in 2018, and the Euro NCAP safety ratings will include this beginning in 2020.”
https://bgr.com/2016/07/01/tesla-autopilot-crash-mobileye-statement/ With this info, I think Tesla may be in bigger trouble than previously though. The family of the driver may sue Tesla for grossly negligent.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Totally wrong here too, I don't think I am safer while driving my S2000 with manual transmission compares with automatic transmission in my E430 or LS400. Two critical wrong opinions makes me mistrust the author and his study.
Given that the article was ENTIRELY about engagement in the process at hand, DRIVING, it valid. Are you more aware of what you are doing when you are driving a manual ? Yes... the fact that you brought vehicle impact dynamics into a discussion that was purely about mental engagement in the driving process indicates more to me about you wanting to discount the points therein than cede that a system that REQUIRES driver engagement, then disengages them is a bad system.
 
In the '80s I read some articles about 55MPH speed limits failing to engage drivers sufficiently, and leading to higher accident rates. At work, a new control space for the operators is being designed, and it takes a very careful balancing act between being active enough that they are alert at all times, but passive enough that they aren't "peaking" for a 12 hour shift. Same here, take away stimulation, and the driver's brain will go off and do something else...
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Totally wrong here too, I don't think I am safer while driving my S2000 with manual transmission compares with automatic transmission in my E430 or LS400. Two critical wrong opinions makes me mistrust the author and his study.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Given that the article was ENTIRELY about engagement in the process at hand, DRIVING, it valid. Are you more aware of what you are doing when you are driving a manual ? Yes... the fact that you brought vehicle impact dynamics into a discussion that was purely about mental engagement in the driving process indicates more to me about you wanting to discount the points therein than cede that a system that REQUIRES driver engagement, then disengages them is a bad system.
I don't agree. When a person drive an Automatic Transmission he/she engage the gear then forget about it and only concentrate on acceleration/cruising/steering/braking ... When a person drive a Manual Transmission he/she keeps changing gears as traffic speed up or slow down, when he/she mis-shift a gear a panic mode is engaged and this may get into an accident. No, there is no extensive study to show that diving a Manual Transmission vehicle is safer than driving an Automatic Transmission vehicle. This is clearly an opinion of a person, may be he is a safer driver when he drive a Manual Transmission vehicle(because he never mis-shift a gear, but then conclude that it is the same for everyone is totally wrong. Any person can have his/her own opinion about anything, but extrapolate/expand his/her experience to general public is totally wrong.
 
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