A Tesla Model S on auto-pilot was in a fatal crash

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JimPghPA

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PALO ALTO -- A Tesla Model S operating with auto-pilot was involved in a fatal crash when a large truck drove across a highway and collided with the sedan, killing the Tesla's driver. It is the first known fatality involving a Tesla when the Autopilot mode was engaged. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration is investigating the crash. "This preliminary evaluation is being opened to examine the design and performance of any automated driving systems in use at the time of the crash," the NHTSA stated in detailing the start of the probe. Tesla said in a company blog post it notified federal regulators when it learned of the accident.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The article said that the auto-pilot may not have been able to detect the white side of the truck against the bright sky background.
No, the press release from Tesla said that. The only entity that has come to that conclusion is the company who's product is involved in the investigation. To be "official", that conclusion must come from the organization who investigates such crashes: NHTSA. They're the only organization that can "officially" determine the cause. Being "official" matters, especially to some members of this forum who haven't yet commented, though it is quite curious that he wasn't the one who started this thread considering the automaker in question...
 
I guess Tesla is going to find out how good their liability insurance is. The reviews of the autopilot system shows quite a bit of failures and they are lucky this is the first fatality.
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The article said that the auto-pilot may not have been able to detect the white side of the truck against the bright sky background.
No, the press release from Tesla said that. The only entity that has come to that conclusion is the company who's product is involved in the investigation. To be "official", that conclusion must come from the organization who investigates such crashes: NHTSA. They're the only organization that can "officially" determine the cause. Being "official" matters, especially to some members of this forum who haven't yet commented, though it is quite curious that he wasn't the one who started this thread considering the automaker in question...
Who is authorized to investigate automotive accidents on interstate highway ? State police , highway patrol, NHTSA ? I don't know. "Official", why do you bring this term into this discussion ? In the other thread you were 100% wrong in applied European regulation/classification of size class to vehicles sold in America. Nobody in America gives a rat about European regulation/classification. We use MPG, they use liters per 100 km. Are we going to change to liters per 100 km to comply with European regulation/classification ? If we do, should we change $US a gallon of 87 Octane to Euro $ a liter of 98 Octane too ? While we are at it why not drop US dollar and use Euro as our currency ? Why not become member of Euro and from now on take orders from Euro for everything ? We, in America don't give a rat about any other country regulations and/or laws. It is clearly car size is classified by EPA for fuel economy purpose, and this is "Official" classification used in USA. You may use Enterprise car rental classification if you want to, but nobody will know what the heck why you want to do that.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
It sounds like the truck caused the accident. If the truck had been on auto-pilot the accident would not have happened.
Tesla stated in its response "What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied." If the diver was attentive he/she may be able to steer the car to the left and probably run into a ditch between lanes. We don't know all the details, the investigate from police or NHTSA may shed some light about the accident. Question for all: you are driving on divided highway at traffic flow speed, suddenly a a tractor trailer drove across the highway on front of you, what are you going to do ? Brake hard ? Steer to left or right and a the same time brake too ? Are we prepared for this type of accident ?
 
Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
The article said that the auto-pilot may not have been able to detect the white side of the truck against the bright sky background.
No, the press release from Tesla said that. The only entity that has come to that conclusion is the company who's product is involved in the investigation. To be "official", that conclusion must come from the organization who investigates such crashes: NHTSA. They're the only organization that can "officially" determine the cause. Being "official" matters, especially to some members of this forum who haven't yet commented, though it is quite curious that he wasn't the one who started this thread considering the automaker in question...
I never said it was "official" That was from the original article, http://www.eastbaytimes.com/business/ci_...dent?source=rss
 
Who investigates? If on the Highway system in Calif, it will be the Calif Hyway Patrol. They have been doing this a l-o-n-g time and they have very skilled investigators. If it involves a commercial truck on a highway in Calif, it will be the commercial truck section of the Highway Patrol and they do not cut corners. I'm sure National Highway Transportation Safety Administration will partner with the CHP and I'm sure a lot of lawyers will be looking over this situation and the findings... Commercial trucks/drivers in Calif have a min of $1M liability insurance, so I don't think Tesla will be digging very deep... If their vehicle was in lane, was not outside normal traffic flow, and was not doing anything "unusual"; I'll bet this lands on the trucker/company...
 
Defensive driving is an area where humans, for now, are superior to computers. A tractor trailer makes turns VERY slowly. If you're approaching that truck, you (as a human) have plenty of time to anticipate what's going to happen and apply the brakes or steer from the danger. Tesla's suggesting the truck was completely invisible, even from 100 feet? No way do I buy that excuse. They said the brakes were never applied. The Tesla driver was unattentive or blind as a bat to not notice a 60-foot tractor trailer. The truck driver was negligent. The Tesla autopilot failed to stop. All 3 contributed to the accident
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Who investigates? If on the Highway system in Calif, it will be the Calif Hyway Patrol. They have been doing this a l-o-n-g time and they have very skilled investigators. If it involves a commercial truck on a highway in Calif, it will be the commercial truck section of the Highway Patrol and they do not cut corners. I'm sure National Highway Transportation Safety Administration will partner with the CHP and I'm sure a lot of lawyers will be looking over this situation and the findings... Commercial trucks/drivers in Calif have a min of $1M liability insurance, so I don't think Tesla will be digging very deep... If their vehicle was in lane, was not outside normal traffic flow, and was not doing anything "unusual"; I'll bet this lands on the trucker/company...
It was not in California. From the article "The accident occurred on May 7 in Williston, Fla., The driver hasn't been identified."
 
Anything involved Tesla would be on national news the same day, a fatal crash with Tesla's autopilot on May 7 and only now on the news ?
 
The fact is Tesla's don't have the sensor package to safely self-drive. No lidar. I don't get how they're allowed to even offer such a thing.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
It sounds like the truck caused the accident. If the truck had been on auto-pilot the accident would not have happened.
Tesla stated in its response "What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied." If the diver was attentive he/she may be able to steer the car to the left and probably run into a ditch between lanes. We don't know all the details, the investigate from police or NHTSA may shed some light about the accident. Question for all: you are driving on divided highway at traffic flow speed, suddenly a a tractor trailer drove across the highway on front of you, what are you going to do ? Brake hard ? Steer to left or right and a the same time brake too ? Are we prepared for this type of accident ?
That is a tough one. Since I'm sure that autopilot uses radar in addition to optical means, I doubt that it couldn't "see" the truck. Since we don't know how fast the car was going or how far away it was when it pulled across the Tesla's path, everything else is speculation. It could well have been a hard one for anyone to survive. It's probably also prudent for there to be a human reasonably in the loop, even if not fully engaged and driving.
 
Originally Posted By: JimPghPA
That was from the original article, http://www.eastbaytimes.com/business/ci_...dent?source=rss
This article has much more details than others.
Quote:
The crash occurred around 3:40 p.m. May 7, on a four-lane highway in Levy County, Florida, according to a state police report. A trailer tractor driver made a left turn across two lanes of traffic. The Model S, on Autopilot, struck the trailer at a right angle and passed underneath. The Model S veered off the road, struck two fences and a power pole before coming to rest. The driver, Joshua D. Brown, 40, of Canton, Ohio, was pronounced dead at the scene. Police estimate Brown was traveling at the posted 65 mph speed limit. A Florida Highway Patrol spokesman said charges may be filed against the truck driver pending a completed investigation.
Looks like auto pilot should see the tractor trailer, it should apply the brake and possibly steer the car to the left to avoid hitting the tractor. I think Tesla auto pilot is at the very minimum partially responsible for the death of the owner/driver. The tractor trailer is partially responsible and the driver too. If the driver didn't totally rely on autopilot he may be able to avoid the accident, or at least didn't get killed.
 
Autopilot is a subscription based service, they are recording every second of it to gather data which is being used to train the system using machine learning. But what I don't understand is; if they're telling us that the system failed to distinguish a trailer from the sky that means most of the system works using regular cameras which cannot sense the physical existence of a truck on the road? No IR cameras? A sonar, a laser or whatever it is? Even Microsoft Kinect uses IRs and microphones to determine the location of an object.
 
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