A Tesla Model S on auto-pilot was in a fatal crash

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR

Question for all: you are driving on divided highway at traffic flow speed, suddenly a a tractor trailer drove across the highway on front of you, what are you going to do ? Brake hard ? Steer to left or right and a the same time brake too ?

Are we prepared for this type of accident ?


I stuffed the brake then modulated heavily while evasively changing lanes to avoid collision into a spot I knew was empty from having just checked my mirrors prior to the event. And this was in the Expedition a few years back. So to answer your question, yes, anybody should be, it is part of defensive driving.


Have done it many many times in my driving career, including the Navara (Fronteir), and multiple SUVs.

Home time for me is 'roo grazing time, and Wednesday, 65mph, had to work out in a fraction of a second where to go when a rather large one crossed my path (stupid things get in your headlight beam, then run down that path, moving back in when you move out of the way).

Whatever happens, it's MUCH better happening at the slowest speed you can get to.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I don't buy Tesla claim that driver and autopilot couldn't see the tractor-trailer because of bright sun light. According to Florida police report the car travels West bound away from the sun at 4:40 PM on May 07. This fact alone is telling me the autopilot didn't work, it should see the tractor first before the trailer

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/business/self-driving-tesla-fatal-crash-investigation.html

About the DVD player and movie, it is not clear if model S driver is watching a movie on it.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I'm not a fan of Musk, but if the investigators prove that this driver was watching a movie on a portable DVD, then this should release Tesla from any libility.IMO


As previously mentioned, they should have a system that actively monitors the drivers...one hand on the wheel, eye flicker and location, all of that.

If he can watch a DVD, fall asleep, have a heart attack and die quietly then they have failed in addressing a basic need.


Shoulda, coulda, woulda. These systems are just beginning to start their baby steps. Yes, I'm sure that once they go mainstream there will be many fail safes, but for now these are just beta versions. Just look at the aerospace industry and how many autopilot errors or human errors in interpreting autopilot responsibilities have happened so far. Each time these systems are further refined, but they are still far from perfect and we are dealing with very highly trained professionals flying planes, not texting and driving morons.

In this case lessons will be learned and the system improved, but it's hard to anticipate what the next knucklehead might do.

 

[turtlevette]

How do you not see a semi crossing your path, sun or no sun. He must have been sleeping. And that's a good assumption considering the arrogance of those videos he posted. A real Tesla fanboy.

This is the danger. I envision the texting crowd relying heavily on these driver aids causing more problems than they prevent.

Driving is supposed to be enjoyable. You're supposed to want to do it.

I don't understand these types of people at all.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Shoulda, coulda, woulda. These systems are just beginning to start their baby steps. Yes, I'm sure that once they go mainstream there will be many fail safes, but for now these are just beta versions.


well plain and simple, they SHOULDN'T be on the road with other innocent parties lives at risk with their "beta" testing.

If driving down the highway here, I grab the steering wheel while my wife is driving, we BOTH get charged with the outcome...if the passenger has been drinking and grabs the wheel, in addiition, they go DUI...just for grabbing the wheel and causing an incident.

So Tesla, in assuming control of the vehicle, they own the issue...beta testing or not.

and again, beta testing in a public playground should be illegal.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
No, Tesla specifically addressed this issue, they said it is not possible to play any video and/or DVD on the 17" center console display.

Originally Posted By: MrHorspwer
Cool... that explains why the guy had a portable DVD player in the car, allegedly watching Harry Potter while he wasn't paying attention and crashed into a semi-tractor trailer.

The truck driver, who was first on the scene, claims that Harry Potter was still playing after the crash. FHP confirmed a portable DVD player was found in the vehicle.

Quote:
"There was a portable DVD player in the vehicle," said Sergeant Kim Montes of the Florida Highway Patrol in a telephone interview.

According to Reuters there are conflicting eye witnesses about DVD player.

Quote:
A digital video disc player was found in the Tesla car that was on autopilot when its driver was killed in a May 7 collision with a truck, Florida Highway Patrol officials said on Friday.

Whether the portable DVD player was operating at the time of the crash has not been determined, however, and witnesses who came upon the wreckage of the 2015 Model S sedan gave differing accounts on Friday about whether the player was showing a movie.


Quote:
It could be weeks if not months before officials make a final determination of the cause of the crash, the first known fatality of a Model S driver while using Autopilot. Meanwhile, the accident is stoking the debate on whether drivers are being lulled into a false sense of security by such technology. A man who lives on the property where Brown's car came to rest some 900 feet from the intersection where the crash occurred said when he approached the wreckage 15 minutes after the crash, he could hear the DVD player. An FHP trooper on the scene told the property owner, Robert VanKavelaar, that a "Harry Potter" movie was showing on the DVD player, VanKavelaar told Reuters on Friday.


Quote:
Another witness, Terence Mulligan, said he arrived at the scene before the first Florida state trooper and found "there was no movie playing."

"There was no music. I was at the car. Right at the car," Mulligan told Reuters on Friday.

Sergeant Kim Montes of the Florida Highway Patrol said on Friday that "there was a portable DVD player in the vehicle," but wouldn't elaborate further on it. She also said there was no camera found, mounted on the dash or of any kind, in the wreckage.



http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autopilot-dvd-idUSKCN0ZH5BW

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Shannow


and again, beta testing in a public playground should be illegal.


Agreed. But the people pushing for automated cars are full of themselves and obviously too confident in the technology. Musk himself said that his autopilot is probably better than an average driver. Looks like it is not.

 

[Andrew1972]

It is an edge case likely in their testing. Unfortunately tesla has to balance getting technology to market vs weeding out edge cases with the cost of human lives. Tesla really should be paying drivers to phone home the realtime data gathered and churn away at it and validate edge cases like this.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Shannow

and again, beta testing in a public playground should be illegal.

Agreed. But the people pushing for automated cars are full of themselves and obviously too confident in the technology. Musk himself said that his autopilot is probably better than an average driver. Looks like it is not.

According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver.

There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less.

If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time.

But I think in this accident Tesla autopilot is at fault.

 

[turtlevette]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Shannow

and again, beta testing in a public playground should be illegal.

Agreed. But the people pushing for automated cars are full of themselves and obviously too confident in the technology. Musk himself said that his autopilot is probably better than an average driver. Looks like it is not.

According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver.

There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less.

If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time.

But I think in this accident Tesla autopilot is at fault.


You really think people believe those garbage statistics?

There aren't enough cars to get that many miles experience. This is Numbskull stuff.

 

[Nebroch]

Tesla's radar system isn't that sophisticated, if it can't separate a trailer from a overhead road sign.

 

[greenjp]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver.

There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less.

If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time.

I think that statistic (provided by Tesla themselves) is overly simplistic. We can't compare the overall passenger car death rate with Tesla's for a few reasons:
- Tesla autopilot is only meant for certain driving conditions.
- A Tesla is a thoroughly modern car of substantial weight
- Limited sample size

To develop a meaningful statistic we'd need to compare the Tesla's fatality rate only against other similar age and size vehicles being driven by a human in the conditions where the autopilot would be used. We'd also need some more crashes to increase the numerator.

To conclude at this juncture that the autopilot is a better than average driver is premature, and it's certainly inappropriate to extrapolate from a very limited data set to the population as a whole.

FWIW I believe that sometime in the not too distant future that automated systems for cars will prove to be safer than most drivers in most conditions.

jeff

 

[Nate1979]

I think the problem with self driving cars is not whether they are safer or not but who holds responsibility in cases where the system is at fault and not the driver. Especially in cases where there is an avoidable death involved. But this is similar the the airbag and ignition switch fiascos. In each case the companies paid $$$$ for their faults.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver.

There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less.

If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time.

But I think in this accident Tesla autopilot is at fault.


The best thing about statistics is that when they are used to defend a position, you know full well that they are cherrypicked.

What percentage of actual driving conditions does Tesla's autoplot allow itself to be used ?

Is it available 100% of the time, like the "average driver" is required to be in, or are the operable scenarios limited to the easy situations ?

Do they even HAVE 130 million miles on autopilot ?

And assuming that this fataility is the "1", at this very low sample rate, if he had full complement of passengers, it could well be 1 per 27 million miles...just through the number of occupants.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I think the problem with self driving cars is not whether they are safer or not but who holds responsibility in cases where the system is at fault and not the driver. Especially in cases where there is an avoidable death involved.


I'm betting Tesla and any other car maker who comes out with a similar system will find ways to take responsibility off themselves and put it with the driver because the system is never supposed to replace the driver.

http://www.torquenews.com/1/airline-pilo...ntrained-masses

A good description of 'auto pilot' or 'self driving cars' was make on page 2 of the link above:
As one of the TWA Captains, 'aviation gods all of them', told me when I was new on the MD-80, "you treat the Autopilot like your 13 year old son. First you tell it what to do, when you watch it all the time to see if it does what told it to do. And ensure that it keeps doing what you told it to do."

 

[puredata]

Now there are news about a DVD player in the crashed Tesla that was playing Harry Potter apparently.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Agreed. But the people pushing for automated cars are full of themselves and obviously too confident in the technology. Musk himself said that his autopilot is probably better than an average driver. Looks like it is not.

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver.

There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less.

If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time.

But I think in this accident Tesla autopilot is at fault.

Originally Posted By: turtlevette
You really think people believe those garbage statistics?

There aren't enough cars to get that many miles experience. This is Numbskull stuff.

How do you know "there aren't enough cars to get that many miles experience" ? Do you have any proof of what you claim ? Until someone have proof that Tesla lied about that many miles autopilot had been on, it is the number I use.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: puredata
Now there are news about a DVD player in the crashed Tesla that was playing Harry Potter apparently.


Originally Posted By: freep.com
Frank Baressi, 62, the driver of the truck and owner of Okemah Express, said the Tesla driver was “playing Harry Potter on the TV screen” at the time of the crash and driving so quickly that “he went so fast through my trailer I didn’t see him.”

The movie “was still playing when he died,” Baressi told the Associated Press in an interview from his home in Palm Harbor, Fla., saying the careening car “snapped a telephone pole a quarter-mile down the road.” He acknowledged he didn’t see the movie, only heard it.


Can you trust the truck driver ?

 

[dishdude]

Who still uses a DVD player? It's almost as outdated as a VHS.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: Shannow

and again, beta testing in a public playground should be illegal.

Agreed. But the people pushing for automated cars are full of themselves and obviously too confident in the technology. Musk himself said that his autopilot is probably better than an average driver. Looks like it is not.

According to statistic, Tesla autopilot is better than an average driver.

There is 1 fatality accident per 9x million miles, 1 fatality in Tesla car when autopilot is on for 130 million miles, about 40% less.

If this can be extrapolated to annual traffic death of 35,000 in 2015, the death rate is reduced to 26,000 with current version of Tesla autopilot on all the time.

But I think in this accident Tesla autopilot is at fault.


95.36% of statistics are made up..