Lol, man.
A-10 Warthog's Tusks Are Being Sharpened For A High-End Fight
- Thread starter BlueOvalFitter
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The Army's latest publicly released publication states the Army is focused on a "maritime" conflict as its next likely engagement.
I have a love for the A10, having participated in many exercises and real-life actions with the A10.
Times change. Adversaries change. The Army now identifies in its publicly published strategy; the Army looks for Joint Air Support from the Navy and Air Force for a conflict centered on a maritime centered theater,. Something the A10 is not a match for.
I have a love for the A10, having participated in many exercises and real-life actions with the A10.
Times change. Adversaries change. The Army now identifies in its publicly published strategy; the Army looks for Joint Air Support from the Navy and Air Force for a conflict centered on a maritime centered theater,. Something the A10 is not a match for.
I just ran across this A-10 discussion as I took a look at the Aviation part of 'Bobs'. After my USAF B-52 service I went back to school and later hired in a development engineering dept of a corporation with many unrelated divisions. I was involved in many defense dept programs over my career and one was development of the various ammunition types for the A-10 General Electric Gau-8 gun. This was in the 70's before the A/C were in the USAF inventory. No, the 'air power' component of the military didn't want such an A/C and the 'ground' people certainly did. Probably 'turf battles' still go on yet today as my reading of history taught me of earlier times. The GE gun was a built up and improved version of the earlier 20mm multi barrel guns used on other platforms including the 'last model' B-52 I was involved with. Our earlier testing was indoors on a short range in measuring components such as propellants for pressures velocity and proper spin rate. Later on that testing was done mostly outdoors and included accuracy and later still lot acceptance of our production contracts. Some various outdoor testing was done at Minnesota and Wisconsin National Guard. Later yet as the A/C were into production we would see the 'range' areas used by the A-10 and others A/C. Years later, I would see ANG A-10s at even small airport air shows. Sometimes I would chat with pilots and mention that we would shoot their ammo in testing indoors just a few miles away and many years before.. Some pretended to know that while others, of course, had no idea and acknowledged the fact.
Our entire military doctrine seems to be built around air superiority. With good reason. Without it losses on the ground will be high. No base secure. And in the case of the Navy, no ships on the surface. I love the A-10, but we can take that piece of the economic pie and put it towards other weapon platforms or air assets than also complete that role. It likely wouldn't take longer to down an A-10 then it did downing that Reaper a few days ago.
As cool as a flying gun is, a JDAM on station as part of the mission plan would be a heck of a lot more appropriate.
As cool as a flying gun is, a JDAM on station as part of the mission plan would be a heck of a lot more appropriate.
As much as people complain about the cost of stealth aircraft, i forsee it being almost required for future combat. I remember (but barely) the start of Desert Storm. The majority of the first wave of aircraft were F-117a's. They hit major communications hubs, and hardened aircraft hangars. It got to the point that the Iraqi military started firing round after round because they couldn't find the F-117a.
Yep. Better to argue about what aircraft will be vaporizing the enemy near our troops than mourning troops that have been vaporized by enemy aircraft. More than anything, we don't want enemy aircraft dropping bombs on our troops. That would be bad. So air superiority FIRST.
As for the A-10, she has served us well, but it is time to part ways.
And I keep seeing the argument of small numbers of "Veyrons" when the reality is that the F-35's are coming in big numbers.
If I'm a grunt, I'm liking the idea of the F-35 much better than the A-10, so that I don't get bombs dropped on my head. I'd enjoy seeing an enemy stronghold get wiped out by something they never heard or saw coming just as much as an A-10 swooping in and splattering them with 30mm. I'd feel better about our airman being unseen and far, far away.
Interesting to note....The Marines never seemed to have clamored for the A-10. They've always had the faster Harrier, F-18's, and now F-35B's and C's. As vulerable to IR missiles as the Harrier is/was, it's a heck of a lot faster than an A-10, and I'd bet, less vulnerable.
I once heard that the A-10 was so slow, the ground crews had to clean bugs off the back of the canopy! LOL!
Oh, and for those who aren't F-35 fans, there's the F-15EX. It will be interesting to see what this thing can do when it gets to Red Flag in numbers that can really give it the test.
In the meantime, if I'm a pilot going to war anytime soon, give me the latest block F-35, especially with the new (yet to arrive) upgraded P&W engine, any day, over anything else operationally flying today.
Then there's the cost. You can have several ground actions each covered by 2-3 A-10's or for the same expense you can have one ground action covered by 1 F-35 and too bad for all the others who have no air support because all the money was spent on the shiny flashy toy and someone else is playing with it.
Doesn’t actually work that way.
Just because the airplane is cheaper, doesn’t mean you have more of them at the FEBA.
Slower = fewer overhead, because the transit is longer, so the overhead availability time is worse.
The A-10 has always been a one trick pony. It was just lucky enough to be used in a war where that one trick worked fairly well.
See my previous posts about the A-10 operating limitations.
It's probably going to be retired by the end of the decade.
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www.defensenews.com
US Air Force wants to retire all A-10s by 2029
“The A-10 is a great airplane … in an uncontested environment,” Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. CQ Brown said.
www.defensenews.com
It doesn't matter how much faster the XYZ is if there aren't enough to go around, and at 10 or more times the cost there won't be.
Where are you getting your numbers?
The total F-35 buy for the USAF is a couple thousand. Over 900 have been built already.
The USAF already has several hundred on the ramp.
Far more than the A-10.
LM will build close to 400 hundred over the next three years. The deal is already done.
The difference is: the F-35 will survive day one of a future near-peer conflict, while the A-10s get shredded.
So, on day two, our grunts won’t see any A-10s, regardless of how many we sent in. Hopefully that number is zero.
Besides, I planned a lot more AV-8, F-16, and B-1 CAS sorties in Iraq and Afghanistan. The grunts may have seen the A-10, but those other airplanes were doing the heavy lifting of keeping the enemy off them.
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Seems like they are both on the way out.
The Air Force is getting rid of B-1B bombers, but it's keeping one around for a different kind of mission
Until the Air Force has retired the whole B-1B fleet, at least one is expected to remain in use in a new role to ensure the others can keep flying.
www.businessinsider.com
So is the Super Hornet.Seems like they are both on the way out.
The Air Force is getting rid of B-1B bombers, but it's keeping one around for a different kind of mission
Until the Air Force has retired the whole B-1B fleet, at least one is expected to remain in use in a new role to ensure the others can keep flying.
Airframe utilization has exceeded plan.
Reliability has fallen short of expectations. USN is looking to accelerate the F-35C deliveries.
There will be a fighter shortfall next decade if steps aren’t taken now.
If we go there, and I hope we don’t, we will know very quickly if the “all of our eggs in one basket” was a good idea or not. Every service has the same future airplane. Not sure I like that for the simple reason that if there’s a flaw, or weakness, it will be equally exploitable across the force.
Look, I’m no fan of the “Battle Penguin” and I’ve said so in this forum.
But it’s a whole lot better than the A-10, which has no relevance in a high end fight.
I laugh at the “sharpen its tusks” headline, when the proposed “new mission“ is to haul decoys near the fight, and then bravely run away, at subsonic speed, from supersonic threats.
You don’t need sharp tusks for the A-10 to fly that mission. You need luck. And lots of it.
No grunt will see the effect of the air launched decoys on the bad guys. CAS will come from survivable airplanes that can manage a real threat.
A real threat. Something the A-10 has never faced. Ever.
This is off topic, if you want to read a great book about CAS….. you have to read Cleared Hot by Col Stoffey. Get the hard cover book of him flying the OV-10 Bronco in Vietnam.
A-10 is a great plane that has proven itself but technology makes all aircraft (eventually) obsolete.
A-10 is a great plane that has proven itself but technology makes all aircraft (eventually) obsolete.
I’ve never understood the love fest for the A-10 other than members of Congress looking after bases in their districts and good PR.
Infantryman's best friend - ask me how I know.
One thing that A10 really excelled in is PR. As Astro pointed several times so far, it is one trick pony and that is if everything is cleared above or below (air defense).
No one in East Europe asked the US to restart production of A10, or to buy used ones. They are all lining up for F35, and F16 Block 72, and they are not even grudging about the cost.
The market for ANYTHING military equipment is such that you could sell stuff locked up in storage for 40yrs, and yet, no one asks for A10.
Served its purpose, but time to move on.
No one in East Europe asked the US to restart production of A10, or to buy used ones. They are all lining up for F35, and F16 Block 72, and they are not even grudging about the cost.
The market for ANYTHING military equipment is such that you could sell stuff locked up in storage for 40yrs, and yet, no one asks for A10.
Served its purpose, but time to move on.
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