It just keeps getting worse for Boeing

[fdcg27]

From today's WSJ:

MSN

Boeing seems to be doing its best to avoid surviving these days.
So sad to see this once great company unable to execute the certifications and even production required to make its way out of the hole it had dug for itself.
Wish I'd dumped the stock earlier, but I never though things would get this desperate.
The current strike is just a symptom of the malaise that plagues Boeing. These workers are also probably ensuring that any future Boeing offering, if there is one, won't be built in the Seattle area.

 

[edyvw]

They are in a death spiral. Only dramatic changes to culture can turn this around, and bankruptcy might be their savior.
Looking back, if they lost tanker contract, maybe things would be different. But they lobbied that to death, and it was strictly political decision. Then they thought that the only thing they had to do was lobby, hence moving HQ to Virginia.

 

[Nuclear_42]

I hope they learn their lesson. However the damage is already done. The once American Giant Boeing is no longer. Airbus is continuing fill the growing void. I'm glad Airbus is investing in USA plants. Expanding their commitment's to provide a safe and reliable product. The government should be doing more to clamp down on Boeing but they are also flawed with same issues that plague Boeing. I wish Boeing the best. However this industry doesn't forgive recklessness and flaws Boeing's pushing out the door. If the bankruptcy and break up of Boeing is needed than so be it. The industry and the people deserve the best in air travel.

 

[Cheetah-kins]

The Boeing saga saddens me greatly. Amazing this giant company could fall like it has.

 

[edyvw]

I hope they learn their lesson. However the damage is already done. The once American Giant Boeing is no longer. Airbus is continuing fill the growing void. I'm glad Airbus is investing in USA plants. Expanding their commitment's to provide a safe and reliable product. The government should be doing more to clamp down on Boeing but they are also flawed with same issues that plague Boeing. I wish Boeing the best. However this industry doesn't forgive recklessness and flaws Boeing's pushing out the door. If the bankruptcy and break up of Boeing is needed than so be it. The industry and the people deserve the best in air travel.

They did not. They still think they can get away with stuff.
Remember, they just announced they will fire 17,000 people. There was no big announcement about firing, let's say, 100-200 top management jobs. The problem is top leadership. And they are still arguing whether they will bring back the health care insurance options they had until 2014 and their pension.

 

[TOLSON]

Isn't Boeings Corporate headquarters in Chicago?

 

[fdcg27]

Isn't Boeings Corporate headquarters in Chicago?

It was, now in Arlington VA.
Manufacturing and assembly is in the Seattle area for the 737, 767 and 777 while the 787 is assembled in SC.
It's tempting to blame the 787's numerous assembly quality lapses on the non-union and inexperienced workforce found in SC, but what about the aircraft built in Washington?

 

[SC Maintenance]

I wonder who's pension fund is buying $10B in new shares of this company that is already basically bankrupt?

 

[BISCUT]

Boeing is due for a big issue that has them in the spotlight like never before. Conjecture on my part but the info being pushed out there seems to point in that direction. Hope it is not valid.

 

[Dave Hess]

William Boeing is rolling in his grave due to the terrible leadership that drove his once flagship company into the ground. Company is in complete shambles.

Very sad story of the rise and fall of Boeing.

At best, Boeing should be $50 share and that’s being very generous…..

 

[edyvw]

Boeing is due for a big issue that has them in the spotlight like never before. Conjecture on my part but the info being pushed out there seems to point in that direction. Hope it is not valid.

I said they are one crash from crashing as a company. They dodge bullet with MAX9 this winter, but even if something happens that is not related to issues in the company, by the time that is sorted out, they might be done.

 

[edyvw]

I wonder who's pension fund is buying $10B in new shares of this company that is already basically bankrupt?

Ha, I better pay attention to what TIAA is doing.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I said they are one crash from crashing as a company. They dodge bullet with MAX9 this winter, but even if something happens that is not related to issues in the company, by the time that is sorted out, they might be done.

I am not an analyst - so do your own research. I delved into this stock a while back when I was bottom fishing. They hold a ton of debt and have negative book value. However there the only US company in this sector, and Airbus has a 10 year backlog, hence no one cancels their orders. I am pretty sure if the airlines had some options, many would take it. So I am almost 100% sure they will not be allowed to go away.

What I do see is a GM style bankruptcy - the model already exists. They Chapter 11 the place, run it through a special court, and there will be a "good Boeing" with all the good parts, and a "bad Boeing" with all the outstanding lawsuits. Shareholder and most bondholder equity will be wiped out.

Taxpayers will fund the new company, and all the money given them during Bankruptcy or to get the new thing going, or to "bad boeing" won't be counted in the "loan amount", so that once the "Good Boeing" pays back the taxpayer they can lie and say it didn't cost us anything.

Just like GM.

 

[Danh]

Let’s not forget that Boeing 1) operates in a duopoly with a very large order book and no short term alternative, 2) there will be no shortage of investors willing to buy shares to recapitalize the company and 3) there is a new CEO with an engineering/production background. So this is all tragic but let’s not write the company off. In any event this is a “too big to fail” company from a national perspective.

 

[edyvw]

I am not an analyst - so do your own research. I delved into this stock a while back when I was bottom fishing. They hold a ton of debt and have negative book value. However there the only US company in this sector, and Airbus has a 10 year backlog, hence no one cancels their orders. I am pretty sure if the airlines had some options, many would take it. So I am almost 100% sure they will not be allowed to go away.

What I do see is a GM style bankruptcy - the model already exists. They Chapter 11 the place, run it through a special court, and there will be a "good Boeing" with all the good parts, and a "bad Boeing" with all the outstanding lawsuits. Shareholder and most bondholder equity will be wiped out.

Taxpayers will fund the new company, and all the money given them during Bankruptcy or to get the new thing going, or to "bad boeing" won't be counted in the "loan amount", so that once the "Good Boeing" pays back the taxpayer they can lie and say it didn't cost us anything.

Just like GM.

When I said crashing, I did not mean that they would be done.
But it WILL be ugly! They are a company of national security importance. They are the largest US exporter. There is a GM scenario, but I would not exclude nationalization in the case of Boeing, skipping all workarounds like in the case of GM. federal government can actually do that.
I don't think we are there, but they are definitely sinking.

 

[edyvw]

Let’s not forget that Boeing 1) operates in a duopoly with a very large order book and no short term alternative, 2) there will be no shortage of investors willing to buy shares to recapitalize the company and 3) there is a new CEO with an engineering/production background. So this is all tragic but let’s not write the company off. In any event this is a “too big to fail” company from a national perspective.

Can we put this to rest? The guy who is most responsible for this mess was an engineer! Engineer who started as an intern in Boing.

 

[Dave Hess]

Boeing should be allowed to go bankrupt and then trim all the DEI idiots getting paid big $$$$ to do absolutely nothing.

Strike will last longer than company expects. Those machinists want their money.

 

[Danh]

Can we put this to rest? The guy who is most responsible for this mess was an engineer! Engineer who started as an intern in Boing.

Can we put this to rest? The guy who is most responsible for this mess was an engineer! Engineer who started as an intern in Boing.

CEO had been a finance guy for the 20+ years before recent change. And, believe it or not, CEOs can absolutely influence/override engineering decisions.

 

[Astro14]

Can we put this to rest? The guy who is most responsible for this mess was an engineer! Engineer who started as an intern in Boing.

Ah - no. Dave Calhoun was CEO from 2020, to 2024, when a lot of this was going on, and he got his degree in accounting.

Before that, it was Muilenberg, and while he started in engineering, he stopped working as an engineer over 20 years ago and was a manager and project manager on several programs. Clearly, he forgot what engineering was about.

From 2005-2015, it was Mcnerney - who was at the helm when the 787 production was started (with all the outsourcing and supply problems), the Max decision was made, and the New mid size airplane was canceled.

He was an accountant.

So, yeah, the guy most responsible was NOT an engineer, he was an accountant, and his host of bad decisions left a legacy of failure.

 

[edyvw]

Ah - no. Dave Calhoun was CEO from 2020, to 2024, when a lot of this was going on, and he got his degree in accounting.

Before that, it was Muilenberg, and while he started in engineering, he stopped working as an engineer over 20 years ago and was a manager and project manager on several programs. Clearly, he forgot what engineering was about.

From 2005-2015, it was Mcnerney - who was at the helm when the 787 production was started (with all the outsourcing and supply problems), the Max decision was made, and the New mid size airplane was canceled.

He was an accountant.

So, yeah, the guy most responsible was NOT an engineer, he was an accountant, and his host of bad decisions left a legacy of failure.

Muilenber was primary cause of this crisis. Yes, we can go to 1997 and argue about merger, but he is the one that made critical moves that put Boeing unnecessarily in death spiral.
My point is, just bcs. someone is engineer doesn’t mean theh will do absolutely right. Does pilot have to be CEO of UAL? The real problem of Boeing is cultural that is so bad, that it really doesn’t matter at this point what background someone has. Bringing outsider was good move, but it might be too late.