99 VW/Audi 2.0L gas 4 cylinder M1/LubeControl 9600 miles

[Terry]

Updated extended drain test with LC/FP/GC, same oil filter as last run. Additional 10 ounces LC. FP intermittantly ( daughter is gone too much for me to get to the car consistantly). Approximatly 30,000 miles on factory rebuilt engine. 99774 miles on car, 15,056 miles on GC oil and M1 oil filter. Oil top up total 1.25 qts over 15K miles. Oil in use a little over 12 months.

al 3
ca 2301
cr 1
cu 23
fe 15
pb 30 this will drop and is residual damage from accident and overheat. Like the Honda leachate we see in scored bearings the Audi engine does it too.
mg 98
mo 6
p 617
k 6 odd spike, unexplained at this point, monitoring for coolant.
si 7 perfect air filter efficiency over 13 months and 15K miles
na 5
sn 3
zn 717
soot/solids 0, none oh yeah !!
oxidation 41.5% normal to low for duration
nitration 74% varnishing without LC to control see vis increase, additional and consistant FP60 would really help here.

sulfur oil and fuel adds

water negative
coolant negative but I am watching it.
fuel none, perfect
V100 14 cSt to darn thick for me but not far from the 12 cSt starting vis.
TBN 6.5 considering duration this is exceptionally good

Oil was changed and back on GC 0w-30 and LC for a steady diet. No apparant coolant loss but that is being monitored considering the K and Pb traces.

Runs like a top !

 

[buster]

quote:

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V100 14 cSt to darn thick for me but not far from the 12 cSt starting vis.
TBN 6.5 considering duration this is exceptionally good

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Impressive. Considering the mileage, the oil held its grade really good. Only a RL could do that or maybe a M1 EP. TBN is really good also. Terry did you read bbobynski on the lead bearing issue? I believe he stated that they are not lead anymore.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010515;p=1

quote:

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Possibly some of the bearings have the very fine tin overplate or a lead/tin overplate for breakin that causes the lead to show up in an oil sample when the engine is new...???

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Terry have you seen any UOA's of the new GC with the new additive package? 600ppm Mg/1,600 Ca.

 

[TooSlick]

This 2.0L VW engine is actually very easy on the oil and an excellent candidate for long drains.

For example, I ran some of the Amsoil 0w-30 for 16,000 miles/1 year in the 1997 Jetta GL I leased some years back and the EOT viscosity was only 12.8 Cst (up from 11.3 Cst). This is after a full year of hard driving, including a high speed drive from Palmdale, CA to Huntsville, AL at an average speed of about 80 mph during August.

The UOA for this run was posted several years ago...if you look hard I'm sure you can find it.
The engine only had about 5000 total miles on it at the time of this service interval and was still breaking in, however Fe wear was excellent @ 37 ppm....The TBN (ASTM D-2896) was 8.1 at the end of the test and Oxidation/Nitration were at approx
40% each...

It's hard to fairly evaluate the results of this test, simply because this particular engine had some mechanical issues.

Ted

 

[Terry]

"It's hard to fairly evaluate the results of this test, simply because this particular engine had some mechanical issues."

Ted thats why I charge to read these things because it is not always cut and dried and repeatable in automotive applications. Thats real world that most engines will see.

I agree Ted that these engines are solid little runners.

Buster, this engine has plenty of Pb in the bearing construct to elevate in the elementals.

I predict that the Pb will stabilize in the future and return to normal.

I am amazed that this engines bearings were not severely damaged in the event my daughters placed on it.

The combo of M1 and LC did contribute greatly to the engines survival.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Terry, I do not know much about this engine so I do not know. Is it an open deck or closed deck. I think all open deck engines use the modern MTL type gaskets. If the engine is showing any coolant leaking the head bolts are probably fine just something to keep an eye on if it should leak!

The new gasket materials are really makeing it much harder to blow a head gasket! It is going to be interesting to see how long it takes for the bearings to trend down after an over heat!

 

[buster]

I'm very impressed with how shear stable GC is. It's extremely shear stable. If other synthetics used this type of PAO we'd be in good shape.

 

[Terry]

John, I have not had this engine apart and can not answer that question. It is not showing coolant loss or leakage but I see a small trace of POSSIBLE coolant ingress in the oil analysis above.

IF thats the case this analysis result is even that much more remarkable.

Ted do you know the deck design on this head ?

Buster the heavy PAO cuts of the base oils are important here stability wise, the PAO derived esters are the real story that I will be expanding on once I can get the dorks in the labs to finish up for us.

 

[TooSlick]

Hey "TeeDub" (Geez,I have been in Alabama too long),

I believe the cylinder head gasket is metal with a silicone or high temp, elastomeric rubber bead ....

The VW/Audi gaskets seem to be of high quality - I still have the original on my 1990 Audi after 230,000 miles and it shows no signs of weeping coolant, either externally or internally.

As I recall, the UOA of the low mileage 2.0L engine I had showed about 28 ppm of Pb. So the bearing overlays used for these motors may be pretty soft.

As an alternate oil choice, I really like the Redline 5w-30/10w-30 for VW/Audi engines, regardless of some of the un-informed (but well meaning) comments you see.

 

[Geoff]

Terry, given TooSlick's comments above, what role do you think viscosity played in keeping this engine alive?

 

[Bill]

Quoted by Terry:

quote:

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nitration 74% varnishing without LC to control see vis increase, additional and consistant FP60 would really help here.

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Terry,

Having hindsight with how the German Castrol thickened over the last interval (OCI 15,056 miles),
with the new GC in your sump, will you up the dosage of LC20 added to the oil to help lessen the thickening?

And try to add FP60 to the fuel on a regular basis to and/or add more FP60 to the gas?

Thanks,

Bill

 

[Santo Fontana]

JB is asking if the block is open or closed deck.

 

[Terry]

Santo, I still don't know. If I were to guess it is NOT filled as the new engine was a Canadian new long block. I had a production tag here from VW/AUDI but can't locate at the present.

Geoff, Vis stability is a key here. Staying between 12 -14 cSt is very good IMO. I shoot for perfection though. I want design. 12.1 or so.

Yes Bill, I will up the LC a bit for the new oil.

Sadly FP will not be added religiously because the girls are college students and I travel up to 20 days a month ! That would help drop Nitration and is needed in this application.

 

[Ken4]

Why is it that VWs have a bad reputation for reliability? My aunts '01 2.0L New Beetle gave her endless headaches until she finally decided to get rid of it and buy japanese. And then I found this article.

Sorry for being

 

[FowVay]

Volkswagen uses sand castings (actually foam formed castings) on their engine blocks. This dictates that the blocks are naturally a closed deck design.

Open deck blocks are manufactured using die castings.

The 2.0 liter gas VW is a cast iron closed deck design.

 

[Bill]

Thanks for your reply Terry, by the way Happy Birthday!

quote:

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And then I found this article.

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That article is a funny read, I have always loved the look of the VW Jetta and Passat but I would be afraid to touch with one with a ten foot pole,
I would probably trip and put my eye out

Have many co-workers who own VW's and almost all of them have electrical problems, I like working on cars fixin this and that but not all the time,
if I wanted to work on cars all the time, I would buy a clunker

Wish VW would get their reliability worked out...

 

[goodvibes]

It seems the thinness of LC in those amounts helped keep the visc. in check alomg with its oxidation control. Does LC become heavier in use as it seems that some thinner components of LC may evap out? It's nice that with GC, you don't have to worry about getting the adds too thinned out since GCs effectiveness is due to a base oil componenet with very little adds. Would you be this comfortable with the same amount of LC in other oils? Were you waiting for the PB wear to stabilize before changing the oil and get back on the right track?

 

[segfault]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken4:
Why is it that VWs have a bad reputation for reliability? My aunts '01 2.0L New Beetle gave her endless headaches until she finally decided to get rid of it and buy japanese. And then I found this article.

Sorry for being

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I am the former owner of a 1999 Jetta VR6 (new body style). The list of malfunctions this car experienced would need its own topic. That said, I truly loved driving the car. I realized about two years into my ownership that I know of people who own 3-series BMWs and spend less to keep them on the road than I spent on the Jetta. I dumped it after a no-start problem caused by a blown fuse which was hidden under the dash (not on the main or underhood fuse panel). The fuse was blown when the overhead light shorted out. It took three weeks for the dealership to diagnose this problem, and they had a second Jetta with the same exact problem on hand for comparison purposes. It would have started right up, without the dome light, had the starter kill *not* been on the same fuse as the dome light--something likely to short out. By the time the car was fixed, I had already bought an Altima to replace it. And the Altima's dome light circuit was separate from its starter kill circuit.

Aftermath: I ended up selling the Altima because the driving experience compared in no way, shape, or form to what I was used to.

 

[Alan]

Segfault,that VR6 is sweet ain't it!

 

[Terry]

Update on the 99 VW Bug. The bearings were hurt in the overheat, see the Blackstone labs/Dyson test results below.

99 VW/Audi 2.0 Castrol 0w30 (GC) with LC and FP and FP3000 , 1.5 qts consumed, Daughters college car, driven 80 MPH city and hwy. M1 205 OF, AF fram
112,572 on car, 12,798 on oil drain didn't quite make a year this run.

al 3
cr 0
fe 10
cu 14
pb 21
sn 1
mo 0
ni 0
mn 0
ag 0
ti 0
k 0
b 2
si 8
na 2
ca 2992
mg 125
p 716
zn 940
ba 0
SUS vis 70.7
flash 440 f
fuel coolant 0%
water 0
insolubles 0.3
TBN 2.5

This car is run hard all the time with little oversight from the old man until its time for repairs. FP was not added but sporadically and it would have helped the insolubles. Glad I changed out the oil when I did. Bearings will continue to fail slowly.

Running Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 with NO LC this run.

Stay tuned.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

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Bearings will continue to fail slowly.

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Disappointed to hear of this news. How much longer will the bearings last, before failure, may I ask?

The Pennzoil Platinum will be interesting to see in action for a long drain, but I think you've hurt pscholte's feelings by switching from GC...

Also, did you use another Mobil 1 M1-205 Oil Filter upon installing the Pennzoil Platinum, or did you switch to another filter? Is the Mobil 1 filter the "preferred" filter in this application for long drains, if so, why?

Thanks.

PS- I was expecting to see a report with your "premium package."