8 popular GM oil filters cut open & compared. 2 Clear Winners.
- Thread starter Robvette
- Start date
I agree that the Titanium is a clear winner if, and only if, it is wire backed-the pink media is the OG Ultra media, which Ascent showed to be the highest efficiency media of all the PH2 sized ones they tested. Otherwise, the Royal Purple or Endurance is the highest efficiency filter (white, thinner, still wire backed synthetic). Not sure why the Boss can't do better, it has the construction down, media just isn't good enough.
Are there comparisons of cartridge filters? I don’t recall seeing one.
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Did Ascent cut the filters open that it tested?
Bosch....the sleeper.
It would be interesting to get all 8 filters for the same application the Bosch (had no bypass) was meant to fit to see if they all had no bypass.
It would be interesting to get all 8 filters for the same application the Bosch (had no bypass) was meant to fit to see if they all had no bypass.
dnewton3
Staff member
I disagree about the assessment of the Titanium being the only Fram worthy of use. I would use any Fram; they are all constructed well enough to do their job. When fully assembled, even the TG would seal properly at the leaf spring. There is mention of "leaking" in the video; where's the proof that any of these would "leak" when the components are properly assembled? Theory is often disproved by reality. I abhor conclusions like the one made in this video; there is a presumption of failure when not one iota of proper testing goes into the assessment.
Speaking of leaf springs, just about every filter in that video has one; the lone exception being the Wix. Back in the day here on BITOG, leaf springs were (unjustly) derided. Yet now, leaf springs are ignored. This just goes to show how BITOG BIAS ebbs and flows thru the years. What seems important today won't be a year from now, simply because of human interest waning for the next best thing to argue about.
Additionally, the AC/Delco is the only one with a nitrile ADBV. Gosh - it wasn't that long ago that topic of ADBV material was all the rage to argue about, and yet it goes completely ignored in the video. But here we are, a few years later and no mention of it.
Further, the base-plate holes are a non-issue; this has been discussed many times. The flow rate thru the holes in a typical filter is WELL MORE than enough to support what the engine PD pump will push. Just because the holes are larger in the Titanium does not mean it flows more; the filter will only flow what the pump pushes, and as long as the volumetric flow is sufficient thru the baseplate, anything "more" (larger holes) doesn't make the oil go any faster. The pump determines flow rate, not the filter. Period.
The pleat count is also moot, generally. Pleat count implies how much media surface area is present. If the difference is only a few pleats, the differential is so small that it won't manifest into a "real world" difference. The only time more pleats (surface area) would be of significant benefit is if you ran the filter to the edge of it's lifespan, to where it were at risk of going into perpetual bypass. We've never had a BITOGer here come up with any proof that "normal" filters are at the edge of holding capacity. Theory runs amok on BITOG, but proof is scant. I've seen filters run for up to 3x their "rated" duration, and the media still was in fine shape.
Also, the presence of a BP in the filter itself is of no concern for this application. Having a BP in the filter is only a secondary function as the true BP is in the engine itself. One could even argue that, in a sake of redundancy, having a filter BP would be some minor benefit should the BP in the engine ever fail in a closed position (highly unlikely). So calling that out in the video should have zero weight to choosing a filter for these applications.
The greatest concern should be efficiency. In this video, the only one I'd shy away from would be the Boss in that regard. All the others are well more than good enough to do a decent job.
My next point would be the center tube and how the "holes" in that are constructed; louvered holes can often be poorly punched and potentially restrict flow (much, much more of a concern than the base-plate). Yet that was completely ignored in the video; not even a wiff of discussion regarding center tubes.
This video reminds me of the old phrase "A little bit of knowledge is dangerous". People see things and make conclusions based on bias and their limited understanding of how the components of an assembly are designed to function relative to the application they are put into.
This video represents classic bench-racing at its finest. And to be fair ... this video isn't alone; most of the filter videos seen on YT are nearly-useless. They make conclusions based on bad assumptions, founded in poorly reasoned bias.
All these filters would do their job well enough that the wear rate delta they might produce would be moot for any "normal" use. The Boss might not filter as well; the only exception.
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Robvette - thanks for doing the video.
Speaking of leaf springs, just about every filter in that video has one; the lone exception being the Wix. Back in the day here on BITOG, leaf springs were (unjustly) derided. Yet now, leaf springs are ignored. This just goes to show how BITOG BIAS ebbs and flows thru the years. What seems important today won't be a year from now, simply because of human interest waning for the next best thing to argue about.
Additionally, the AC/Delco is the only one with a nitrile ADBV. Gosh - it wasn't that long ago that topic of ADBV material was all the rage to argue about, and yet it goes completely ignored in the video. But here we are, a few years later and no mention of it.
Further, the base-plate holes are a non-issue; this has been discussed many times. The flow rate thru the holes in a typical filter is WELL MORE than enough to support what the engine PD pump will push. Just because the holes are larger in the Titanium does not mean it flows more; the filter will only flow what the pump pushes, and as long as the volumetric flow is sufficient thru the baseplate, anything "more" (larger holes) doesn't make the oil go any faster. The pump determines flow rate, not the filter. Period.
The pleat count is also moot, generally. Pleat count implies how much media surface area is present. If the difference is only a few pleats, the differential is so small that it won't manifest into a "real world" difference. The only time more pleats (surface area) would be of significant benefit is if you ran the filter to the edge of it's lifespan, to where it were at risk of going into perpetual bypass. We've never had a BITOGer here come up with any proof that "normal" filters are at the edge of holding capacity. Theory runs amok on BITOG, but proof is scant. I've seen filters run for up to 3x their "rated" duration, and the media still was in fine shape.
Also, the presence of a BP in the filter itself is of no concern for this application. Having a BP in the filter is only a secondary function as the true BP is in the engine itself. One could even argue that, in a sake of redundancy, having a filter BP would be some minor benefit should the BP in the engine ever fail in a closed position (highly unlikely). So calling that out in the video should have zero weight to choosing a filter for these applications.
The greatest concern should be efficiency. In this video, the only one I'd shy away from would be the Boss in that regard. All the others are well more than good enough to do a decent job.
My next point would be the center tube and how the "holes" in that are constructed; louvered holes can often be poorly punched and potentially restrict flow (much, much more of a concern than the base-plate). Yet that was completely ignored in the video; not even a wiff of discussion regarding center tubes.
This video reminds me of the old phrase "A little bit of knowledge is dangerous". People see things and make conclusions based on bias and their limited understanding of how the components of an assembly are designed to function relative to the application they are put into.
This video represents classic bench-racing at its finest. And to be fair ... this video isn't alone; most of the filter videos seen on YT are nearly-useless. They make conclusions based on bad assumptions, founded in poorly reasoned bias.
All these filters would do their job well enough that the wear rate delta they might produce would be moot for any "normal" use. The Boss might not filter as well; the only exception.
*********
Robvette - thanks for doing the video.
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For the most part your assessment is fair. I updated the title and description of the video to be clear that all filters in this video are considered Top Choices. Every one of these filters is someone's top choice and all are good.
It's not unheard of for a filter bypass to malfunction, stick open, or open too soon. But, if you would like the redundancy of a filter and engine bypass - then you have 2 choices.
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all 8 of these filters are for the same application. only the Fram TG3980 and XG3980 have bypass valves. all 6 others, like the Bosch, have no bypass valves.
I have never seen any evidence that any bypass valves have "malfuctioned". Not one C&P has shown any evidence of that.
I'll make the same comment about the video that I made in your other thread:
On the Fram PH and TG filters with the fiber end caps, even though the leaf spring doesn't "fit tight" inside the center tube, it still seals because the leaf spring compresses it and seals it to the end cap. You can see the impression in the end cap.
And BTW, do you think those filters would ISO efficiency test as good as they do if oil was actually leaking around the media at the end cap? They really don't "leak", because if they did the ISO efficiency would really suffer. Same goes for the Endurance, it wouldn't ISO test at 99+% at 20μ if it was "leaking" at the metal to metal seal on the end cap.
On the Fram PH and TG filters with the fiber end caps, even though the leaf spring doesn't "fit tight" inside the center tube, it still seals because the leaf spring compresses it and seals it to the end cap. You can see the impression in the end cap.
And BTW, do you think those filters would ISO efficiency test as good as they do if oil was actually leaking around the media at the end cap? They really don't "leak", because if they did the ISO efficiency would really suffer. Same goes for the Endurance, it wouldn't ISO test at 99+% at 20μ if it was "leaking" at the metal to metal seal on the end cap.
Maybe it's "black silicone" ... time for a burn test, lol.
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The Ascent testing was done more than 2 years ago. We can't know if any of the current filters have filter media or filtration results equal to those tested by Ascent. We can speculate - but we can't know.
We have know way of knowing this. We do know 5 of the 8 filters in this comparison claim 99% at 20um.
Furthermore - the Fram Ultra filter I just used on my 89 Corvette L98 was wire backed. This Fram Utra for my 92 Corvette LT1 is not. So not only can we not confidently ascribe Ascent results from 2 years ago to some other filter today ... we cannot even be sure that two filters of the same line purchased today are equivalent.
If you believe what Fram said about the non wire-backed Ultra (email posted some place here), it's supposedly even more efficient below 20u. But yeah, only a comparative ISO test would prove it or not.
And some of those claims are based on one gigantic sized filter model. Been some recent threads about that, and what some specific model Purolator filter model's actual efficiency are, and it's not very close to the generic efficiency claim of the line based on the gigantic filter size (30001). It was even discussed in one of your threads.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-30um-not-20um-like-it-says-on-amazon.370543/
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i did email both Bosch and Fram to confirm efficiencies for these specific 5 filters, and both replied 99%@20um
i didn't trust the website claims specifically because of the Purolator 30um vs 20um issue that i previously posted about
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Other than the independent (Ascent) testing that was done here, there has been no independent verification of efficiency ratings. The Royal Purple and Endurance both are Champ made, with similar (or the same) media, and as you have discovered, it's very hard to believe much that comes out of Purolator/Mann customer service. They once told me NONE of their filters could exceed 3000 miles, even if the vehicle manufacturer stated they could go longer (Bosch Distance Plus D3520 on my '06 Cummins 5.9 diesel, factory non-severe OCI 10,000 miles). If you want to believe what Mann tells you, good luck...
dnewton3
Staff member
Apparently it's not silicone ... and this shows that AEM does not have the temp range (low or high) that silicone does
https://www.allsealsinc.com/Material-Selecting-Rubber-Compounds.html
AEM .... -40F up to 300F
Si .... -75F up to 450F
AEM made by different companies ... here's two ...
https://promo.parker.com/promotionsite/oring-ehandbook/us/en/ehome/Ethylene-Acrylate-(AEM,-Vamac)
https://www.dupont.com/content/dam/...c/documents/en/Vamac-at-a-Glance-Brochure.pdf
I'm not a chemist; I don't know that I can comment past what we read here.
I'm sure AEM is more than adequate for the job, or it wouldn't have been selected. (oddly, it's not even cheaper than silicone ...)
But it's clear that the "AEM" isn't silicone, or as good in terms of temp capabilities.
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Even though Ascent testing was over 2 years ago its the only independent testing the general forum has been privy to.
With the changes to the Fram lineup - sure there is some uncertainty there, but they claim the new media is even more efficient (specifically about the ultra).
I cannot stress enough, as i did in the other thread, we cannot even begin to make assumptions about pressure drop based on filtration area/number of pleats. The media type by and large is going to be the biggest factor. And we just don't know what we're looking at in that regard.
With the changes to the Fram lineup - sure there is some uncertainty there, but they claim the new media is even more efficient (specifically about the ultra).
I cannot stress enough, as i did in the other thread, we cannot even begin to make assumptions about pressure drop based on filtration area/number of pleats. The media type by and large is going to be the biggest factor. And we just don't know what we're looking at in that regard.
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