737 MAX 10

[Astro14]

We were the first Airbus operator in North America ( pretty sure, will check later ) and some are pretty old.

We have some newer ones but old ones too.

I've seen some of the new gen in Air Canada Livery - with the big winglets, so post - 2008, right? Or perhaps I remember incorrectly.

I am an A-320 fan. I recognize how good an airplane it is. I flew it for 6 years.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Just took 4 flights to get to and from Orlando from Calgary through Toronto. A321-200, A330-300 and an A220 were the planes. Apparently air canada is buying airbus.

The outbound flight from Calgary to Toronto was delayed once we had all boarded because the fuel calculation was incorrect and more fuel needed to be added. Is this common? Better to catch it on the ground than 1/2 way there.

The flight from Orlando to Toronto on the return leg was delayed 2h10min. Interestingly, due to new regulations, Canadian carriers have to compensate customers for delays more than 2 hours, but air canada just bumped the flight time by 1/2 hour a few times and then called the flight "on time" so it looks like they found a way around that.

Have flown a number of larger 737 models to Hawaii with Westjet over the years and those seem clunkier and rougher than the Airbus flights recently.

Air Canada was the first operator of Airbus in North America IIRC.

They bought them before anyone else in NA.

The A220 is not really an Airbus, but they like the 220 from what I hear.

Most pilots who have flown both prefer the Airbus 320 versus A220.

Will double check on that but pretty sure they were the launch customer for Airbus in NA.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

I've seen some of the new gen in Air Canada Livery - with the big winglets, so post - 2008, right? Or perhaps I remember incorrectly.

I am an A-320 fan. I recognize how good an airplane it is. I flew it for 6 years.

I have been at the leisure division since it started ( by choice ) and that’s when I first remember seeing FINS with winglets.

I switched from mainline in 2013 ( went back to mainline due to Covid for the summer of 2020 then back to leisure fall 2020 ) to leisure division.

Same pilots as mainline except we cannot fly mainline aircraft ( vice versa ) unless do a short transition coarse.

Why did I switch?

More productive flying.

The only Boeing I have flown was FO B727.

 

[4WD]

Just took 4 flights to get to and from Orlando from Calgary through Toronto. A321-200, A330-300 and an A220 were the planes. Apparently air canada is buying airbus.

The outbound flight from Calgary to Toronto was delayed once we had all boarded because the fuel calculation was incorrect and more fuel needed to be added. Is this common? Better to catch it on the ground than 1/2 way there.

The flight from Orlando to Toronto on the return leg was delayed 2h10min. Interestingly, due to new regulations, Canadian carriers have to compensate customers for delays more than 2 hours, but air canada just bumped the flight time by 1/2 hour a few times and then called the flight "on time" so it looks like they found a way around that.

Have flown a number of larger 737 models to Hawaii with Westjet over the years and those seem clunkier and rougher than the Airbus flights recently.

My recent AC flights were embraer 175 and Boeing B789 …

 

[4WD]

Air Canada was the first operator of Airbus in North America IIRC.

They bought them before anyone else in NA.

The A220 is not really an Airbus, but they like the 220 from what I hear.

Most pilots who have flown both prefer the Airbus 320 versus A220.

Will double check on that but pretty sure they were the launch customer for Airbus in NA.

Airbus Buys Bombardier Out Of Commercial Aviation For $591 Million

Airbus and the Québec government become the sole owners of the A220 program with the exit of Bombardier, which developed the plane but was driven to the brink of bankruptcy by the spiraling costs of the ambitious program. With a debt load of $9.7 billion, it won't be Bombardier's last divestiture.

www.forbes.com

 

[nthach]

Boeing doesn't make engines. They've never made engines and are often engine agnostic. They leave that to Pratt & Whitney, General Electric, Rolls Royce, and at least one partnership (CFM).

a lot of airlines got ticked off about the interminable delays with the PW geared turbofans and changed their orders to CFM. But case in point with the military engines.

As it stands right now, Boeing is almost in bed with GE, save for the Rolls-Royce option on the 787 and any options for the 767. Airbus is almost all Rolls-Royce, except for the engine choices on the A320 family(CFM, IAE, PW), A380(Engine Alliance - GE & PW) and A220(PW).

GE and Rolls-Royce wanted to bid on the F-135 for the F-35. DoD ending up supporting PW instead. But, Rolls-Royce got the contract to reengine the B-52.

 

[PimTac]

I saw this article this morning and it fits along with this thread topic.

Airlines' answer for congested airports and rising costs: Bigger planes

Airlines are turning to bigger planes that fit more travelers to handle strong demand.

www.cnbc.com

 

[4WD]

As it stands right now, Boeing is almost in bed with GE, save for the Rolls-Royce option on the 787 and any options for the 767. Airbus is almost all Rolls-Royce, except for the engine choices on the A320 family(CFM, IAE, PW), A380(Engine Alliance - GE & PW) and A220(PW).

GE and Rolls-Royce wanted to bid on the F-135 for the F-35. DoD ending up supporting PW instead. But, Rolls-Royce got the contract to reengine the B-52.

The best single aisle Airbus I have flown on is the A321NEO with P&W PurePower engines …

 

[E365]

Great chart from that CNBC article.

 

[y_p_w]

I saw this article this morning and it fits along with this thread topic.

Airlines' answer for congested airports and rising costs: Bigger planes

Airlines are turning to bigger planes that fit more travelers to handle strong demand.

www.cnbc.com

Nothing new really. Japan Airlines used several single class 747s for domestic flights. They were strengthened for more frequent takeoff and landing. PSA had the L1011.

 

[PimTac]

Great chart from that CNBC article.

View attachment 148904

It is interesting and I looked at the Alaska Airlines graph and wondered if their subsidiary Horizon had anything to do with their different showing?

Horizon runs a few shuttle type routes like Seattle to Portland every thirty minutes using turboprop aircraft. Not much emphasis on capacity but more on schedule convenience. They have a similar route from Seattle to Vancouver BC.

The legacy carriers also have their regional operations and the same question might apply here as well.

 

[y_p_w]

It is interesting and I looked at the Alaska Airlines graph and wondered if their subsidiary Horizon had anything to do with their different showing?

Horizon runs a few shuttle type routes like Seattle to Portland every thirty minutes using turboprop aircraft. Not much emphasis on capacity but more on schedule convenience. They have a similar route from Seattle to Vancouver BC.

The legacy carriers also have their regional operations and the same question might apply here as well.

Horizon has retired all their directly owned turboprops though. Not sure if their partner still operates them. I remember being at SeaTac seeing all these Horizon branded turboprops at the terminal.

 

[UncleDave]

As a passenger Air Canadas first A320's weren't great.

I flew them a tremendous number of times from LAX to YUL when my company was headquartered in MTL.

Air Canada seemingly ordered them without APU's and during long parks at gate you'd get no AC.

Lots of then had metal boxes on the floor that intruded into your legroom and or ability to store a carry on item completely under the seat.

 

[PimTac]

Horizon has retired all their directly owned turboprops though. Not sure if their partner still operates them. I remember being at SeaTac seeing all these Horizon branded turboprops at the terminal.

I think they branded everything as Alaska. I believe I read somewhere that the turboprops are being phased out for Embraers. Not sure on that though.

 

[Astro14]

Great chart from that CNBC article.

View attachment 148904

Average. Per domestic.

Excludes the over 200 widebody jets in United’s fleet that fly international, for example, and includes the rapidly dwindling RJ fleet that has first class and few seats.

So, a totally distorted view that makes you think Sun Country and Frontier have much bigger jets than American, Delta, and United, who offer first class on small jets, and have big wide bodies flying internationall.

Which is silly.

 

[GON]

Average. Per domestic.

Excludes the over 200 widebody jets in United’s fleet that fly international, for example, and includes the rapidly dwindling RJ fleet that has first class and few seats.

So, a totally distorted view that makes you think Sun Country and Frontier have much bigger jets than American, Delta, and United, who offer first class on small jets, and have big wide bodies flying internationall.

Which is silly.

The chart is very distorted.

What the chart fails to depict is density per aircraft. My takeaway is that the airlines with the highest average seat per aircraft are really demonstrating how many seats they are fitting into an aircraft.

The top three airlines listed in the chart are in fact the top three airlines with the lowest average customer satisfaction. And to add insult to injury, unlike United and Delta, American is reducing latrine quantity AND latrine size in latest configuration of narrow body mainline aircraft.

 

[PimTac]

American is reducing latrine quantity AND latrine size in latest configuration of narrow body mainline aircraft.

Not a good situation when that meal you ate in the terminal doesn’t sit well with you after taking off.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

As a passenger Air Canadas first A320's weren't great.

I flew them a tremendous number of times from LAX to YUL when my company was headquartered in MTL.

Air Canada seemingly ordered them without APU's and during long parks at gate you'd get no AC.

Lots of then had metal boxes on the floor that intruded into your legroom and or ability to store a carry on item completely under the seat.

Incorrect.

Every A320 that came off the production line had an APU, just like today.

Last aircraft Air Canada operated with no APU was the early DC-8 models IIRC.

 

[UncleDave]

Incorrect.

Every A320 that came off the production line had an APU, just like today.

Last aircraft Air Canada operated with no APU was the early DC-8 models IIRC.

I used the word "seemingly" because I wasn't sure, but It's enlightening to know they all did.

I wonder why they didnt run them? (or the AC if they were running)

OR maybe the AC is reduced in capacity when on the APU?

Either way the aircraft was uncomfortable in hot weather on the ground at times.

 

[E365]

Average. Per domestic.

Excludes the over 200 widebody jets in United’s fleet that fly international, for example, and includes the rapidly dwindling RJ fleet that has first class and few seats.

So, a totally distorted view that makes you think Sun Country and Frontier have much bigger jets than American, Delta, and United, who offer first class on small jets, and have big wide bodies flying internationall.

Which is silly.

Why the condescension?

It’s a chart and article about domestic flying. Why would they include international widebody flying in a chart about domestic flying?

MIT has a bunch of data if you want to make your own chart with average seats per departure for the Total Operating Fleet. Sounds like that’s what you’re looking for. United was #2 in 2019, only behind Hawaiian.

Airline Data Project