Flight attendants union asking for an end to lap infants

[dnewton3]

The irony is that the NTSB and NHSTA would (rightfully) advise us that having a child in a properly designed and secured seat is a must for safety. But the FAA? Naaawwwwww - it's only a suggestion.

I'm sure folks like Astro and other pilots here can attest, but I don't have to live through a bad experience to learn from it.
Just google "airline cabin turbulence" and see what stories and videos come up. People have been killed, knocked unconscious, and seriously injured not being belted in while seated. And yet some person thinks he/she/it/they/? can hold her child safely in an emergency or turbulent event? Generally I think anything that is unsecured is a risk; laptops, small kids, etc. It's just as easy for a child to come out of the parent (caregiveer) grasp and be hurt, and also potentially injur others, as any other small object of mass.

It's time the FAA step up and do the right thing; a seat for every soul is a must. The thing is that it will be difficult to delineate the necessities of coming out of the seat for diaper changes, breast feeding, etc. At least if people have to pay for the seat they would be likely to use it.

 

[y_p_w]

The irony is that the NTSB and NHSTA would (rightfully) advise us that having a child in a properly designed and secured seat is a must for safety. But the FAA? Naaawwwwww - it's only a suggestion.

I'm sure folks like Astro and other pilots here can attest, but I don't have to live through a bad experience to learn from it.
Just google "airline cabin turbulence" and see what stories and videos come up. People have been killed, knocked unconscious, and seriously injured not being belted in while seated. And yet some person thinks he/she/it/they/? can hold her child safely in an emergency or turbulent event? Generally I think anything that is unsecured is a risk; laptops, small kids, etc. It's just as easy for a child to come out of the parent (caregiveer) grasp and be hurt, and also potentially injur others, as any other small object of mass.

It's time the FAA step up and do the right thing; a seat for every soul is a must. The thing is that it will be difficult to delineate the necessities of coming out of the seat for diaper changes, breast feeding, etc. At least if people have to pay for the seat they would be likely to use it.

I remember flying on Spirit where there were very few standard carry-ons for my extremely full flight. So you'd think that there would be plenty of space to stow something like my laptop bag that qualified as my personal item. However, the flight attendants stopped anyone from putting anything in an overhead bin that didn't have a paid carry-on tag. So there was a ton of stuff going under seats that could fly around with severed turbulence. On other airlines they didn't care as long as there was space, but when overhead bin space was scarce the standard sized carry-ons got highest priority. I do remember trying to stash a bag on an empty seat and was told no, but it then went under the seat in front.

But apparently this isn't an FAA thing per se other than they would end up with enforcement. They're not really regulating. The union is lobbying Congress to add the seat requirement to a transportation appropriations bill.

 

[wwillson]

Have you ever experienced severe turbulence? I have and there is no way you could hold on to a child. Buy a ticket and put them in a seat.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The AFA-CWA raised the issue Wednesday at the Federal Aviation Administration safety summit in Northern Virginia and has submitted its list of priorities, including “a seat for every soul,” to Congress.

I’m assuming this means they’re OK with politicians flying in the standing-room-only section?

 

[Passport1]

I was on a bumpy flight once. Rough but way shy of severe. The young lady seated next to me was terrified and asked if she could hold onto my arm. For about 10 minutes her grip was like a tourniquet. When it subsided I told her if it happened again she ought to ask the guy on her left because I was already bruised. I don't fly often and usually find it unpleasant.

 

[Leo99]

I was on a bumpy flight once. Rough but way shy of severe. The young lady seated next to me was terrified and asked if she could hold onto my arm. For about 10 minutes her grip was like a tourniquet. When it subsided I told her if it happened again she ought to ask the guy on her left because I was already bruised. I don't fly often and usually find it unpleasant.

I'm flying in May and June this year. The older I get, the more I dislike it. At least one flight will be in business class international. I'm popping Meclizine right before the flight.

 

[JHZR2]

Let me know how that trip to Hawaii works out for you...

Actually we have done it many times, including to Europe this past summer. We keep child car seats in some locations we visit so don’t need to have another along for the trip.

Nursing a baby is a great way to keep their ears equalized, so all three of ours, when small, got to nurse going up and down. Depending on how they sleep, holding the baby close can actually help it sleep better.

That said, you have to set up well. I was on a KLM flight this year and the mother with a small child first couldn’t get it to settle, then must have dropped it about an hour after lights out. She was even seated bulkhead, so why she didn’t have a bassinette was beyond me.

We have also done the child car seat thing before. Bring it with us, strap it in. It’s fine, works well and gives them a structured way to sit, but lots of junk to carry around the airport on top of small children. If you gate check a big stroller it can be managed, but if traveling with a smaller one, it’s harder.

 

[The_Eric]

It should be a no brainier to put kids in an appropriate retention device in their own seat on a plane - I just don't see why we need the feds involved.. We need less nanny state crap and a better overall culture, which is something that were sorely lacking (in many, many senses of the word) and you can't fix that with legislation, only make the nanny state increasingly powerful

I was on a bumpy flight once. Rough but way shy of severe. The young lady seated next to me was terrified and asked if she could hold onto my arm. For about 10 minutes her grip was like a tourniquet. When it subsided I told her if it happened again she ought to ask the guy on her left because I was already bruised. I don't fly often and usually find it unpleasant.

Jeeze man, are you an arm model? She wanted help and comfort from you, not the other guy.. if it was really that painful, get her to switch her grip to something that worked for the both of you.. Have you no empathy?

 

[WylieCoyote]

Have you ever experienced severe turbulence? I have and there is no way you could hold on to a child. Buy a ticket and put them in a seat.

Not to mention a big percent of heavy turbulence hits with no warning, so before the mother can react, the child's head has already hit the overhead. Never liked seeing a kid in a lap. One of the planes I flew on (ATR 72) had a permanent dent in the rearmost seat overhead from one of the flight attendants sitting there unbelted during a flight. Her adult neck didn't fare well. Imagine an infant's neck.

 

[4WD]

YYZ to AMS a few days ago … 18 month old loose or screaming when restrained … Surely unsafe - and ruined rest time in an expensive transatlantic cabin for the other passengers … (red eye) …
We never flew with infants - The grandparents kept ours until a bit older …

 

[edyvw]

It should be a no brainier to put kids in an appropriate retention device in their own seat on a plane - I just don't see why we need the feds involved.. We need less nanny state crap and a better overall culture, which is something that were sorely lacking (in many, many senses of the word) and you can't fix that with legislation, only make the nanny state increasingly powerful






Jeeze man, are you an arm model? She wanted help and comfort from you, not the other guy.. if it was really that painful, get her to switch her grip to something that worked for the both of you.. Have you no empathy?

Why you need nanny state? Boeing MAX, VW Dieselgate, etc. etc.

 

[The_Eric]

Why you need nanny state? Boeing MAX, VW Dieselgate, etc. etc.

To an extent, yes, regulate industry, not the individual (not to be taken to the extreme literal interpretation). Or let Boeing screw the pooch and lose the confidence of the people and airlines and let them fail. Someone else will move in, take their place and learn from their mistakes heed the wants/needs of the end user.

 

[edyvw]

To an extent, yes, regulate industry, not the individual (not to be taken to the extreme literal interpretation). Or let Boeing screw the pooch and lose the confidence of the people and airlines and let them fail. Someone else will move in, take their place and learn from their mistakes heed the wants/needs of the end user.

No they won’t move in. Who will move in?
Have you ever heard of terms monopoly, duopoly, oligopoly etc? This is not bakery to open instead of one that bankrupt.
Adam Smith, guy who basically came up with idea of capitalism, argued that capitalism without government role is not possible.
Yes, government regulates, yes you benefit from it.

 

[Astro14]

To an extent, yes, regulate industry, not the individual (not to be taken to the extreme literal interpretation). Or let Boeing screw the pooch and lose the confidence of the people and airlines and let them fail. Someone else will move in, take their place and learn from their mistakes heed the wants/needs of the end user.

“Someone else will move in” to manufacture airliners by the thousands?

That’s fantasy.

Who would it be? You don’t just start designing and building airplanes. It’s not a mom and pop type operation. It takes several years to design, prototype and get approval. It’s a huge undertaking requiring tens of billions of dollars and thousands of people at an established manufacturer. These aren’t little business jets, they’re big jets, subject to a great deal of rigor and testing to meet certification.

It took Airbus decades to become a major player with government support in the billions. COMAC has been trying to get started for decades with the full support of Chinese government.

If Boeing were to collapse, there would be even less competition. Prices on airliners go up.

For decades to come. We all suffer.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

“Someone else will move in” to manufacture airliners by the thousands?

That’s fantasy.

Who would it be? You don’t just start designing and building airplanes. It’s not a mom and pop type operation. It takes several years to design, prototype and get approval. It’s a huge undertaking requiring tens of billions of dollars and thousands of people at an established manufacturer. These aren’t little business jets, they’re big jets, subject to a great deal of rigor and testing to meet certification.

It took Airbus decades to become a major player with government support in the billions. COMAC has been trying to get started for decades with the full support of Chinese government.

If Boeing were to collapse, there would be even less competition. Prices on airliners go up.

For decades to come. We all suffer.

Japan is a first world country and they gave up.

Its not that easy.

Concorde was designed and built in Europe, they had the expertise ( and govt help ) to compete with Boeing ( with govt help ) , but it took time.

They both make great planes.

I have noticed ( like with motor oil on BITOG or vehicles ) some pilots are Boeing pilots while others prefer Airbus.

I do not care ( all things being fairly equal ) as long as the plane has a big flight deck which the Airbus does for a narrow body.

Until they let us fly from home, I want a big office at work.

Japan's Mitsubishi abandons plans to build passenger jet, admits it 'lacked the know-how'

Japan has abandoned its plans to build its first 'homegrown passenger jet' after years of technical setbacks and rising building costs. A decade after the aircraft was supposed to have gone for commercial services, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries said that it will cancel the public-private SapceJet...

www.wionews.com

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Have you ever experienced severe turbulence? I have and there is no way you could hold on to a child. Buy a ticket and put them in a seat.

I have never hit severe turbulence in my entire career.

A pilot who was part of a B777 crew told us he didn’t think they would survive the severe turbulence they went through, that’s how severe it was.

That said, those planes are built to withstand enormous stres and no structural damage was found after it diverted due to passenger injuries ( hittimg the ceiling ).

Obviously, the plane is capable of handling it.

It was clear air turbulance.

I have been hit by lightening ( another airline ) and high end moderate but nothing remotely close to severe turb.

Always keep your seatbelt on in your seats.

 

[PimTac]

I have never hit severe turbulence in my entire career.

A pilot who was part of a B777 crew told us he didn’t think they would survive the severe turbulence they went through, that’s how severe it was.

That said, those planes are built to withstand enormous stres and no structural damage was found after it diverted due to passenger injuries ( hittimg the ceiling ).

Obviously, the plane is capable of handling it.

It was clear air turbulance.

I have been hit by lightening ( another airline ) and high end moderate but nothing remotely close to severe turb.

Always keep your seatbelt on in your seats.

We always keep our seatbelts on. I’m not sure what constitutes severe turbulence but if one feels like they would float off the seat then I would personally call that severe. Almost every trip we have been on had the usual bumps and dips. Most of the time the turbulence came out of nowhere. You know it’s big time when other passengers are screaming.

I couldn’t imagine holding a child on a lap during that.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

We always keep our seatbelts on. I’m not sure what constitutes severe turbulence but if one feels like they would float off the seat then I would personally call that severe. Almost every trip we have been on had the usual bumps and dips. Most of the time the turbulence came out of nowhere. You know it’s big time when other passengers are screaming.

I couldn’t imagine holding a child on a lap during that.

Severe turb is when a plane is momentarily out of control.

 

[PimTac]

Severe turb is when a plane is momentarily out of control.

As I am self loading cargo that sense might feel different than what is experienced on the flight deck.

 

[The_Eric]

“Someone else will move in” to manufacture airliners by the thousands?

That’s fantasy.

Who would it be? You don’t just start designing and building airplanes. It’s not a mom and pop type operation. It takes several years to design, prototype and get approval. It’s a huge undertaking requiring tens of billions of dollars and thousands of people at an established manufacturer. These aren’t little business jets, they’re big jets, subject to a great deal of rigor and testing to meet certification.

It took Airbus decades to become a major player with government support in the billions. COMAC has been trying to get started for decades with the full support of Chinese government.

If Boeing were to collapse, there would be even less competition. Prices on airliners go up.

For decades to come. We all suffer.

I'm quite well aware of the difficulties. Nothing in the aviation industry is simple, cheap or easy. But too big to fail? I'm tired of being riding roughshod over by these huge corporations and their greed.

When your kids were young, did you ever see them attempting something and know that it would result in failure? Did you let them fail anyway? The best lessons are the ones hardest learned. IMO, this is part of a much bigger and broader issue with no one simple answer, but we as a people (not just our government) should not, cannot allow this crap to continue. We are failing as a culture. Massively.