737 MAX 10

[E365]

The Mid-Exit door already exists on the 737-900 (NG) as an “option”. I’ve only seen it on foreign carriers, likely once they get past 200 seats in a single class configuration. US carriers should all technically have the opening, but there’s a non-openable plug installed where the door would be, usually.

As for space, I wouldn’t be concerned. In the US, you should have more legroom with the MAX-10. I believe United has 179 seats in their 737-900s and Delta has 180. Both United and Delta are advertising 182 seats in their MAX-10s. So only 2-3 extra seats in a 66” longer fuselage.

It’s rumored United will have a Premium Configuration with even fewer seats, including 22 lay-flat seats.

As for bathroom, there should be 4 on US Domestic MAX-10s. Most Domestic 737-900s already have 4. This shouldn’t be any less.

Delta does 3 in back and 1 in first class. United does 1 in first class, 1 behind first class and 2 in back.

Here’s the dummy Mid Exit door on UA and DL 737-900s. The interior is covered over, so you’d never know it was there from the inside (except for the window spacing)

 

[MNgopher]

What's funny is knowing that the Max 10 (and all other 737's) use the same fuselage dimensions as the 757 did, which routinely carried similar numbers of passengers being complained about for the Max 10. Flying out of a Delta, formerly Northwest Airlines hub city, the 757-200 and 757-300 were routinely used on routes with higher passenger counts...

 

[JMJNet]

What's funny is knowing that the Max 10 (and all other 737's) use the same fuselage dimensions as the 757 did, which routinely carried similar numbers of passengers being complained about for the Max 10. Flying out of a Delta, formerly Northwest Airlines hub city, the 757-200 and 757-300 were routinely used on routes with higher passenger counts...

This is interesting.
I got to fly in one of the Max with Southwest, the way it flies feel familiar and it is quieter.
Now, that you mention, it is using the same dimension as 757 fuselage.
IMO IIRC, the 757 was very comfortable to fly.
I used to fly early morning in late 90's and I can sleep all the way through in a 757.

 

[GSCJR]

My worst experience was an Alitalia 777 around 2002 - little Italian engineers made a plane for little Italian people - it was a miserable flight to and from Rome.

I didn't realize Alitalia made planes, no wonder they're no longer around, what do they know? Next time take one of these:

I also went to Rome in 2002, but I can't remember if we flew Air Canada or Alitalia.

 

[JavierH19]

I have a feeling tail strikes might be a bit more common with this. Long body and somewhat stubby gear seems like a bad combination. And it seems boeing thought the same thing so they created a cheap stopgap by making the landing gear be extendable instead of properly engineering and certifying a proper longer fixed gear to accommodate the stretched fuselage. We've seen what boeings cheap stopgap shade tree fix did to the max the first time. I really don't trust this extending gear.

Just let Ryanair operate it for a year and those hard landings will eventually break the mechanism and collapse the sucker. It'll probably cause an engine and wingtip to scrape.

 

[97prizm]

You do understand the airlines - not the manufacturer - dictate seat pitch. Have you been on a Southwest 737-800 or Max-8? Even the non-exit rows are pretty good for my 6'5" 260-pound frame. On the other hand, American's 737-800s are pretty dreadful insofar as pitch.

Boeing and Airbus offer capability and capacity. It's up to the customer to configure cabins to suit their needs.

Definitely. When I worked for Frontier we had two Airbus reps come. They told us they'd build it just about in whatever configuration we wanted.

 

[PWMDMD]

I didn't realize Alitalia made planes, no wonder they're no longer around, what do they know? Next time take one of these:
View attachment 146435
I also went to Rome in 2002, but I can't remember if we flew Air Canada or Alitalia.

I don't really care what their title was - engineer, interior decorator, accountant, Feng Shui Master - someone at Alitalia and not Boeing decided 4" of legroom was sufficient.

 

[mk378]

use the same fuselage dimensions as the 757 did

That's really interesting. It seems like they should be using some design elements of the 757 and making it smaller, rather than continuing to ridiculously stretch the 737.

For some reason I thought a 737 had 2-3 seat rows in economy class, but indeed it is exactly the same width and 3-3 seats as a 757.

 

[mbres2000]

That ultra-stretch plane is some scary sh1t! I've read that there were several engineering challenges just to make the first two MAX models based on a nearly 50+ year old design. But they didn't have time to start from scratch, with Airbus taking so much of the market.

 

[GON]

That ultra-stretch plane is some scary sh1t! I've read that there were several engineering challenges just to make the first two MAX models based on a nearly 50+ year old design. But they didn't have time to start from scratch, with Airbus taking so much of the market.

Astro posted a theory that Boeing kept the 737 instead of introducing a new narrow body model was to keep very large users of the 737 happy. New models require new training, service equipment, and I supposed many dozen of other major capital expenditures.

 

[350Rocket]

Astro posted a theory that Boeing kept the 737 instead of introducing a new narrow body model was to keep very large users of the 737 happy. New models require new training, service equipment, and I supposed many dozen of other major capital expenditures.

That's why they covered up MCAS, so they didn't need to be trained about it (or even know about it), leading to 2 crashes and a lot of deaths.

 

[Dave Hess]

I’m surprised Boeing is not working on the future 797 and keep updating the 737.

 

[GON]

I think a point not well discussed with the increased densitof seats on narrow body aircraft is the tension with it goes far beyond the interior density of the plane. Majority of airport gates are not fit to handle narrow bodies with 200 plus pax per narrow body. Not enough seating, not enough restrooms, not enough gate space for pax entering the aircraft.

One only needs to look at what I consider the very worse hub airport in the USA, to see what happens when a marginally designed airport terminal(s) see a significant increase in pax per plane. That would be Charlotte. Clt offers significantly less cost per passenger than any other aa hub. So aa routes excessive traffic through clt. This results in high tension in every terminal, and the bathrooms have beyond belief congestion.

Densification of narrow body aircraft has a lot of direct and indirect negative impacts.

 

[PimTac]

I think a point not well discussed with the increased densitof seats on narrow body aircraft is the tension with it goes far beyond the interior density of the plane. Majority of airport gates are not fit to handle narrow bodies with 200 plus pax per narrow body. Not enough seating, not enough restrooms, not enough gate space for pax entering the aircraft.

One only needs to look at what I consider the very worse hub airport in the USA, to see what happens when a marginally designed airport terminal(s) see a significant increase in pax per plane. That would be Charlotte. Clt offers significantly less cost per passenger than any other aa hub. So aa routes excessive traffic through clt. This results in high tension in every terminal, and the bathrooms have beyond belief congestion.

Densification of narrow body aircraft has a lot of direct and indirect negative impacts.

This is a really big point. Many of our airports are not all that convenient for travelers when it comes to services. Even Seattle Tacoma would suffer if this higher passenger capacity aircraft trend takes off and I think that is possible. Using higher passenger capacity and reducing flights would be an option to reduce carbon footprints.

It shows how far behind we are in this country when it comes to airports.

 

[wpod]

All a plane needs is 2 lavatories , one for me and the other for the rest of the people on the plane.

 

[4WD]

All a plane needs is 2 lavatories , one for me and the other for the rest of the people on the plane.

Think I took a flight with you

Thought I’d seen it all on long hauls. The PJ crowd always annoy me because that’s right when I need to go before the seatbelt sign comes on. But I get it - some travel in nice clothes etc …

Well, the other day I see a guy with a cheap looking jogging outfit change into PJ’s

 

[MNgopher]

Again, the 757 and 737 use the same dimension fuselage (cross section - yes the lengths vary). The 737 Max 10 is intended to replace the 757-200 series in a large percentage of operations for many operators. And those operators currently have gates sized for that size of narrowbody aircraft. Took plenty of flights on the flying pencil through the years... (the 757-300). I continue to chuckle that a single aisle plane of this capacity is somehow regarded as something new...

Presented without comment: (other than the 10 Max will be even closer in length to the 757-200).

 

[UncleDave]

Just completes an MCO-SFO roundtrip via Alaska airlines.

outbound as a 737-900 - return was a 737Max9.

The max 9 had more interior space and was notably better from NVH perspective.

It seems from a business class seat to be an upgrade in every way.

I'm aware of the MCAS/ training debacle. That said there has been a runaway trim disconnect procedure for quite some time.

 

[Danh]

I’m surprised Boeing is not working on the future 797 and keep updating the 737.

I’m surprised Boeing is not working on the future 797 and keep updating the 737.

Well, they are and have been. But in order to make it an attractive option for customers there has to be a generational improvement in operating economics coming from airframes and engines. A current proposal with NASA is a “Transonic Truss Braced” fuselage with long, narrow wings braced by struts which is thought to substantially reduce drag.

Until something approaches a breakthrough occurs, it just doesn’t make sense for Boeing to embark on a new and very, very expensive project. And the 737 family is very competitive with the A320, with the possible exception of very long-range routes.

 

[nthach]

It’s all dependent on airline and how they have their cabin configured. Southwest and the ULCCs like Spirit will have the plane configured for all one class, with maybe bigger seats in the front row/exit rows(WN uses the same seats regardless of config, the exit row uses a different tray setup to fold into the center of the seat). The legacy carriers like United will configure for 2 class or 3-class.

Thinline seats are all the rage with the carriers now. The 737 Max 9/10 and A321 Neo was developed to replace the 757, which UA and one other are intending to run until it ain’t economical anymore.