5w30 vs 10w30

[Virtus_Probi]

I would think that a 10W30 (synth or conventional) would suit the OPer's climate just fine.
But, if you're switching grades looking for better NOACK, make sure that you're going to get it with the oil you choose.
The PQIA hasn't looked at a lot of synthetic 10W30s, and the only brand name I recognized in the bunch was Royal Purple with a NOACK loss of 9.8% (in 2011). This is a good result, but in the same range as synthetic 5W30s from RP (10.9%), M1 (10.1%), and QSUD (8.8%) in 2013.
Then you look at the PYB "conventional" 10W30 result from 2015 and see an amazingly low 4.4% NOACK loss! The PQIA was so shocked that they tested it again and correlated really well with 4.2%. There was a lot of discussion at the time about whether SOPUS was using GTL base stocks for this oil for some reason, but who know what was going on and what you'd get if you bought the same product (in its new bottle) now.

I can't find NOACK loss for M1 10W30, but I do notice that it has lower HTHS and 100C viscosities than M1 5W30...probably not what you'd be looking for in hot climate protection!

 

[Fasttimez]

Interesting about the 100C Viscosity you mention. I would think at 100C with both being a 30w oil, the 100C viscosity would be nearly identical. The latest info I have comparing the new Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 (NOACK 10.1%) vs Pennzoil Platinum 10w30 (NOACK 4.7%). I'm guessing the 10w not needing to be "propped up" as much as the 5w with VII & the such lends to its much lower NOACK. Being that I don't really need a 5w grade oil where I live, running the 10w oil would be better in terms of robustness & being less prone to varnish & the such.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Fasttimez
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
If your engine has hydraulic VVT then you have to run a viscosity that will phase the came for best torque. I put 10w30 QSUD in my rogue this recent OCI, and I had to replace 1/2 qt with 5w20 QSUD to get the viscosity in line. Car felt like it was stuck in the mud with too high a viscosity.
Funny that this car specs a 30 grade and QSUD 10w is thinner at temp than the DEXOS 5w30. I don't know what the HTHS is oon the 10W QS; It could be 3.2 or 3.4 cP. HTHS affects piston acceleration off TDC and lightweight short skirted pistons don't appear to take kindly to a HTHS out of the design intent. Ive had ping go away with a lower viscosity oil.

In other words, put in the viscosity the engine is calling for!

You may need a Horse(Power) whisperer to hear what the engine is saying

HaHa, I hear you. I'm not worried about my VVT Cam Phasers. The reason being, my engine is "spe'd" to run 5w20, however the manufacturer states to run 5w50 if I plan on abusing it at the race track. So they had to build in a tolerance for the VVT system to run such a wide range of viscosity for this engine (5.0 Ford V8).
No that's incorrect. You are making a WILD assumption. If you have a coyote, you should have MECHANICAL VVT with no reference to oil pressure and flow used in cam phasing. So oil grade doesn't affect the cam position.

 

[merconvvv]

Ya but 5w30 and 10w30 can differ in noack by a lot. So i dont think this labelling scheme has any merit !

To op just find a low noack 10w30 with ccs around 3300 and mrv around 10k and you got almost a 5w30!

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Ya but 5w30 and 10w30 can differ in noack by a lot. So i dont think this labelling scheme has any merit !

Please explain how the cold weather pumpability rating is deficient in regards to what the NOACK is for a given oil.

How does NOACK invalidate the "W" rating? Are you saying some oils that claim a certain "W" rating don't meet it because the NOACK is different?

 

[SilverFusion2010]

After some more research I am firmly in the 10w-30 camp UNLESS you have temps cold enough that 5w is NEEDED.

I'm sure each engine has a "goldilocks" viscosity where wear protection and mpg live in harmony. Finding that is going to be a matter of trial and error with UOA.

For my particular case I have a 3.0L V6 that is GDI. 5w-20 was specified by ford without any dimensional or clearance changes to the engine, which was originally spec for 5w-30. Not knowing about fuel dilution with GDI engines, I ran 5w-20 out to 7500 mi, which is regular service interval recommended by OM. I think this caused excess wear because it started drinking oil around the 100k mark. Switching to 5w-30 helped slow it down but didn't solve it completely. Now I'm monitoring most recent fill of M1 HM 10w-30 which has viscosity just shy of a 40. I've also replaced the PCV valve to take that out of the equation.

Now can I prove that running 5w-20 hurt the engine? Nope. But I suspect fuel dilution was doing a number on the 20 and it was too thin to protect adequately by 3k or so. Had I run a good 10w-30 from the beginning of the engine's life I think the motor would be in better shape. Can I prove this? Nope. But my logic and reasoning make sense to me, and I'm going to do a UOA around 5k to see what is going on so I have some hard data.

A lower noack should help consumption caused by oil getting past the rings. A 10w-30 is going to resist heat better than an oil loaded with VII. Ditto for shearing down in grade. Ditto for dealing with fuel dilution because they start thicker.

The only downside I see for 10w-30 is a little mpg hit during warm-up, and possibly some slow cold cranking. And I mean really cold, below 0f.

Of course if you're in the thinner is better camp your opinion is going to differ from mine.

 

[merconvvv]

Kschachn by labeling scheme i was replying to post above that said if 5w30 oil "batch" is on thin side it gets labelled as 10w30.

 

[merconvvv]

I meant if it comes out thick it gets labelled as 10w30.
That is not what happens. I am pretty sure.

 

[ndfergy]

Zero difference in my car in startability, idle revs and performance between 5 and 10W this past winter where the lowest temperatures were -12C. My car has hydraulic cam phasing.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I meant if it comes out thick it gets labelled as 10w30.
That is not what happens. I am pretty sure.

The cold weather pumpability spec of the formulated motor oil is not a mystery prior to testing. Even if it was, that wouldn't affect the labeling. It gets labeled with the proper grade.

 

[merconvvv]

Yup kschacn i was also only replying to an earlier post !

Mobil 1 super syn 10w30
CCS, cP 4070 @ -25°C
MRV, cP 13,400 @ -30°C

Does anyone know without guessing what the numbers are for m1 10w30 and m1 10w30 ep and hm.
It be nice to know.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Fasttimez
Interesting observation also. With our modern oil filters having anti drain back valves in them now, a "dry" start is very hard to do accomplish with any oil viscosity. However I can see a thicker oil staying on valve train parts up top, vs a thinner oil draining off quickly.


Note that many grp iii severe hydroprocessed/isomerized are "metallo-phobic" the oil doesnt wet metal parts - like water rolling off a waxed car. May here have stated years ago when grpiii "Castrol" and later XoM faux synthetic dominated the market. about dipsticks being hard to read and "flakey", and anecdotes about engines being noisy. Ive had oils that just about ran off the DS when withdrawn from its scabbard

The purePlus GTL paraffins seem to not be burdened by this aspect.

 

[4WD]

Used M1 for three decades that dipstick thing is fake news like always ...

 

[PimTac]

I think it's the dipstick more than the oil.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me. I use 0/5w 20/30 in all liquid-cooled engines per manufacture recommendation and 10w30 in my air cooled lawn tractor. Ed


that is the argument for lower cold flow rated oils. But is it really that big of a deal? 80% of what? If wear is so minimal anyway, 80% of almost nothing is still almost nothing. I have taken several engines to well over 1 million miles, doing frequent starts during the day, and cold starting after they sat all night, on 15w40 in the upper midwest. My present Detroit engine gets a 10w30 in winter and a 15w40 in summer. Has 688,000 miles on it and uses roughly 2 qt of oil in 22,000 miles / 500 hr OCI's. And my almost 12 year old Cadillac CTS 3.6 VVT, that called for M1 5w30 by the OEM, has been getting Pennz 10w30 conventional for most of the time I have owned it. Year round. And it is still doing great. Will keep it for quite some time. Compared to the complaints on the various Cadillac related forums, mine has had fewer issues by several margins. My 2015 2500 6.0L L96 VVT gets two oil changes a year... one in spring with 10w30 and one in fall with 5w30. My Yamaha portable generator and my JD Z445 mower get 10w30 also.

 

[Fasttimez]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Originally Posted By: Eddie
I 80% of engine wear occurs in the first few minutes of warming up then a 0/5w oil make sense to me. I use 0/5w 20/30 in all liquid-cooled engines per manufacture recommendation and 10w30 in my air cooled lawn tractor. Ed


that is the argument for lower cold flow rated oils. But is it really that big of a deal? 80% of what? If wear is so minimal anyway, 80% of almost nothing is still almost nothing. I have taken several engines to well over 1 million miles, doing frequent starts during the day, and cold starting after they sat all night, on 15w40 in the upper midwest. My present Detroit engine gets a 10w30 in winter and a 15w40 in summer. Has 688,000 miles on it and uses roughly 2 qt of oil in 22,000 miles / 500 hr OCI's. And my almost 12 year old Cadillac CTS 3.6, that called for M1 5w30 by the OEM, has been getting Pennz 10w30 conventional for most of the time I have owned it. Year round. And it is still doing great. Will keep it for quite some time. Compared to the complaints on the various Cadillac related forums, mine has had fewer issues by several margins.

I'll have to find the article, but it stated that unless you're in an environment where the temperature is consistently below 0*F, there is no need for a 5w oil. These 0w & 5w oils were created due to the need for better MPG as required by federal regulations. Had the regulations not changed, everyone would still be running a 10w30 or higher grade oil. They now have 0w16 oils.....that's basically colored water if you ask me.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: 4WD
Used M1 for three decades that dipstick thing is fake news like always ...
If you are non cognoscenti about oil grades types re: polarity, solvency, traction.
If if you are a industry STOOGE trying to discredit and CREATE fake news to keep the Sheeple here CALM

 

[4WD]

Another highly biased meaningless comment from you just like the first. We know you don't like M1 but I doubt anyone cares.
I have been changing oil since doing it for a living at 16 and with those age numbers reversed - I'm changing my oil on six vehicles to this day. Why have I never seen your dipstick problem ?
Tig, you run that watered down M1 - how do you know the sump is full ?

 

[4WD]

When was that ? This year - two motors B2B - one Ford and one GM - M1 EP quieter than PUP with an actual meter.
(I post here with my oil changes)

No sheep here - I split my business between these two companies ... fuel and lubes.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Hey! Calm down there Yosemite!