5W20 Under 45 Degrees F. ?

[Triple_Se7en]

If you follow what is in the owner’s manual, and it sounds like this is what you are doing, then there is no need to change what you are doing, and what you are using is fine. Anything else is likely over-thinking it.

Vehicle owners that followed their HyunKia Owners Manual for 2012-2019 can find their failed engine blocks behind their dealerships.

Viscosity Matters sometimes and so does the brand we choose. Some brands have better base oils and better (or) increased additives. These things may not guarantee engine old age, for we often decide by the way we drive and how well we maintain it, how long that engine will last.

But doing things correctly will guarantee much longer service life of that engine, by choosing a fitting viscosity and higher performance brand-name oil for your vehicle.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

It was a toasty -15F this morning here in MN. I'm currently running 5w-40 in my BMW.

I would switch to 0w40 at that temp.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I would switch to 0w40 at that temp.

0W doesn't matter at a balmy -15F.

for 0W winter rating CCS and MRV are tested at -35C and -40C

What would aid frigid starting and warmup would be a majority grp iv synthetic base stock formulation exhibiting an excellent viscosity index in an xW30 grade.

- Ken

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

0W doesn't matter at a balmy -15F.

for 0W winter rating CCS and MRV are tested at -35C and -40C

What would aid frigid starting and warmup would be a majority grp iv synthetic base stock formulation exhibiting an excellent viscosity index in an xW30 grade.

- Ken

I disagree that it doesn’t matter. All other factors being equal, -15F is cold enough for there to be benefits from the lower cP of the 0w. Less strain on the starter and battery, faster flow to places that need it. It is plausible that it could make a difference over the life of a car.

 

[kschachn]

The behavior of any specific oil is not predictable when of the same grade but a different winter rating like that. Only when below the actual test temperature of the eating is it guaranteed to be different.

And a higher grade is always thicker above those test temperatures compared to a lower grade.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

The behavior of any specific oil is not predictable when of the same grade but a different winter rating like that. Only when below the actual test temperature of the eating is it guaranteed to be different.

And a higher grade is always thicker above those test temperatures compared to a lower grade.

Yes, I understand 0w doesn’t always guarantee that an oil will perform better at cold temps. That’s why “all other factors being equal” is important.

Let’s look at HPL P+ 5w40 (4879 cP at -30C) vs 0w40 (4829 cP at -35C). While both of these will perform particularly well at -15F, I chose this comparison because it is very easy to see the 0w does have better cold performance despite the difference in measurement temps.




Generally the graphs of cP vs temp for the 0w are going to be lower at lower temps when comparing apples to apples. You can also infer which might sit lower on the graph by looking at pour point, cSt at 40C, and viscosity index.

I don’t know what 5w40 was being used, but generally the same brand’s 0w40 will have lower cP at any temp.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

As a follow up, here’s Castrol Edge 5w40 vs 0w40. It’s quite clear their 0w40 outperforms their 5w40 in the cold.




Similarly, here is Valvoline:



Granted, none of these perform as well in the cold as HPL’s Premium Plus 5w40.

So, as we know, many factors come into play. If using HPL Premium Plus, I agree it probably doesn’t matter at -15F. If using Castrol 5w40, I’d be on the lookout for any cold improvements I could get. Switching to Castrol’s 0w40 would not be a bad idea, or better yet Valvoline’s 0w40.

Moral of the story, look at the specs.

 

[kschachn]

Yes, the "cold" of the certification requirements for the winter rating.

 

[Spedestrian]

0W doesn't matter at a balmy -15F.

for 0W winter rating CCS and MRV are tested at -35C and -40C

What would aid frigid starting and warmup would be a majority grp iv synthetic base stock formulation exhibiting an excellent viscosity index in an xW30 grade.

- Ken

In my car I have motul excess gen 2. In my brothers n52, it has mobil 1 0w-40

 

[RAVL]

Vehicle owners that followed their HyunKia Owners Manual for 2012-2019 can find their failed engine blocks behind their dealerships.

Viscosity Matters sometimes and so does the brand we choose. Some brands have better base oils and better (or) increased additives. These things may not guarantee engine old age, for we often decide by the way we drive and how well we maintain it, how long that engine will last.

But doing things correctly will guarantee much longer service life of that engine, by choosing a fitting viscosity and higher performance brand-name oil for your vehicle.

Thanks for the lecture. I am sure Hyundai and Kia are keen to hire you for your engineering insights. And if you are correct, and the manufacturer is too incompetent or dishonest to recommend the correct oil for the car, it is time to buy a different brand of vehicle. Btw, if they cannot get motor oil viscosity correct, how do you think they will do with the quality of the rest of the vehicle?

None of this is to say that viscosity cannot be appropriately varied under a particular circumstance, but wholesale disregard of what is in the manual is classic internet over-think. And the PNW is very mild weather in terms of extreme cold or hot.

 

[kschachn]

Thanks for the lecture. I am sure Hyundai and Kia are keen to hire you for your engineering insights. And if you are correct, and the manufacturer is too incompetent or dishonest to recommend the correct oil for the car, it is time to buy a different brand of vehicle. Btw, if they cannot get motor oil viscosity correct, how do you think they will do with the quality of the rest of the vehicle?

None of this is to say that viscosity cannot be appropriately varied under a particular circumstance, but wholesale disregard of what is in the manual is classic internet over-think. And the PNW is very mild weather in terms of extreme cold or hot.

Zero to do with being incompetent or dishonest. There is no “correct” grade, only acceptable ones. The manufacturer has used one particular grade in CAFE testing and cannot recommend another in their owner’s manual. That grade provides “acceptable” levels of wear per their own definition. But physics isn’t thwarted, a higher grade will always provide less wear as well as giving a cushion for fuel dilution.

The manufacturer got it correct for all the reasons they have for their recommendation - which are not primarily technical.

 

[ripcord]

That theory went out the window as Mt. Baker hit -26 below F. this week . *My coldest experienced was in Thief River Falls MN. where it hit -65 degrees F. (not wind chill factor) in Jan . Unreal what -65 degrees F. ambient temp does to your mind and senses !

Brrr!!!! My wife keeps hinting she'd like to move to Hawaii.

 

[RAVL]

Kschachn -

Again, nothing in your post is news, but if the manufacturer has any interest in customer retention, the recommended viscosity will be consistent with a long service life. Motor failure is not typically the reason cars are considered “worn out” - it is all the other stuff. And when there are defects with an engine design, there is not a magic oil that will resolve it.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

As a follow up, here’s Castrol Edge 5w40 vs 0w40. It’s quite clear their 0w40 outperforms their 5w40 in the cold.

View attachment 198615
View attachment 198614

Similarly, here is Valvoline:

View attachment 198618View attachment 198619

Granted, none of these perform as well in the cold as HPL’s Premium Plus 5w40.

So, as we know, many factors come into play. If using HPL Premium Plus, I agree it probably doesn’t matter at -15F. If using Castrol 5w40, I’d be on the lookout for any cold improvements I could get. Switching to Castrol’s 0w40 would not be a bad idea, or better yet Valvoline’s 0w40.

Moral of the story, look at the specs.

You must define and bracket "in the cold". Most often that will reside north of -35degC.

As I had stated somewhat indirectly, the KV100 and the VI will tell a tale of cold weather viscosity morseso than the extremes of CCS and MRV testing. These are ambient temperatures where I do not intend to start my car or head out into the frozen tundra. I started a little Toyota once in -18F weather, and that was it for the alternator bearing. Same season the water pump seal gave out on the Rav 4 that had under 60K miles on it, and same week rear shock seals blew out. Nope. Never again. A bit easier not to head out now that I am retired. - Ken

 

[4WD]

Kschachn -

Again, nothing in your post is news, but if the manufacturer has any interest in customer retention, the recommended viscosity will be consistent with a long service life. Motor failure is not typically the reason cars are considered “worn out” - it is all the other stuff. And when there are defects with an engine design, there is not a magic oil that will resolve it.

Armed with that - Kschachn should be able to get more miles from those vehicles in signature …

 

[stormgol]

That theory went out the window as Mt. Baker hit -26 below F. this week . *My coldest experienced was in Thief River Falls MN. where it hit -65 degrees F. (not wind chill factor) in Jan . Unreal what -65 degrees F. ambient temp does to your mind and senses !

record low for this area is -45f without wind chill.

Thief River Falls, Minnesota - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[hawkdriver]

record low for this area is -45f without wind chill.

Thief River Falls, Minnesota - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Record for Minnesota is -60F

And back to OPs topic, You'll be just fine with 5w-30 at those temps

 

[RazorsEdge]

We started vehicles this week using 5w30 with -22 degrees Fahrenheit with no issues.

 

[chris719]

And a higher grade is always thicker above those test temperatures compared to a lower grade.

Do you mean winter grade? There are one or two exceptions, like the Castrol 0W-30 A3/B4, which is actually slightly thicker than M1 FS 5W-30 even at 40 C.

 

[ChrisD46]

We started vehicles this week using 5w30 with -22 degrees Fahrenheit with no issues.

Good replies - one could make a thinner 5W30 (Pennzoil Platinum) their winter oil (lol !) The current fill of M1 5W30 EP has been fine with temps in the teens . Prefer to error with thicker oils for Hyundai / Kia engines by staying with 5W30 synthetic oil if possible . Like Ken , I can elect to stay in until temps warm up.