4L60E Build

[clinebarger]

Wondering about valve bodies- any good quality sorces (besides sonnax's own reman) updated valve bodies- wondering if that is an option instead of dealing with existing one. Existing core is unknown- maybe good or worn.

Summit Racing has Delco part numbers 24244046, 24244058 & 24244062 in stock, These are remanufactured for GM, Most will have a oversized TCC Regulator & Isolator Valves (.472"). This can be confirmed by the (SERV) stamped on the valve body.

'96-'08 valve bodies interchange, The difference is in the the Accumulator Valve & Accumulator Valve Spring. The Transgo SK-4L60E will allow you to tailor the Accumulator Valve to the 2nd Servo size via different weight springs.

If you're concerned about Line Pressure being applied to the converter clutch?.......This is probably the best option outside a Sonnax valve body, Then you can simply tune the PWM apply out (HP Tuners doesn't support '96 & '97 VCM's just so you know)

I'm not familiar with Fitzall products.

​

​

 

[dfarr67]

- reading some past posts, I'm embarrassed by some of my spelling
- I don't see any remarks on how this trans performanced or at least a cost benefit analysis on some of the parts used- would you use them again.

- question on converters, I know you can literally spend what you want and I have never moved beyond a HD oe style unit:
I wanted to stay within Canada for shipping, the border, and exchange rate- but it severely limits choices- I eventually purchased a semi/reman unit from a builder accross the country who does do some performance- his niche is unknown to me but for $350cdn using my core, he mixed and matched components except for the clutch which is premium and backwards compatible to the 700R. The other choice was a well known trans builder who does the occasional converter when time permits with a similar build but with a billet stator $550---question is, what is the difference? And I know I'm not pushing the spec on anything and could probably have found a oe application in a corvette or camaro that would have come close. BTW -30% for us$.

 

[clinebarger]

- I don't see any remarks on how this trans performanced or at least a cost benefit analysis on some of the parts used- would you use them again.

Performs & shifts very well.......

*I plan on installing a TVS-2300 supercharger soon...So the 300M Output Shaft is good insurance against spiral fractures.
I had a 5.7L LS1 with a TVS-1900 & the output shaft on the 4L65E I was running at the time spiral fractured taking out most of the unit with it. I wouldn't bother on a N/A set-up unless you're running some seriously low 60ft times with sticky tires.

*The 2.84 Carrier is worth every cent in my opinion as it fixes the goofy ratio spread....I think every 700R4/4L60E would benefit, But $760 is a hard pill to shallow on any budget build.

*Sonnax 3-4 apply & backing plates......Depends on how much longer the 3-4's last, It's difficult to quantify any added value here with the good luck I've had with new OE apply & backing plates.

*Sonnax 2nd & 4th Super Hold Servos, I think the 4th Servo is a must in any high performance or heavy duty application. A 093 Vette 2nd Servo is good enough to about the edge of what a 4L60E will take, I just wanted to play with Sonnax 2nd servo & get a good Feed Orifice/Accumulator Spring/Accumulator Valve recipe for future builds.

*Sonnax Reaction Shaft, GM "Rollerized" shafts that fit the Sonnax 2.84 Carrier or ANY pre-2007 Carriers are no longer available & I don't trust the Chicom ones being peddled by wholesalers. The "Roller" versions of these tend to have wear where the 3-4 Clutch Hub splines on. The last thing you want is the 3-4 hub wobbling around.
Your unit will have a Thrust Washer style Reaction Shaft, While I recommend upgrading to a Torrington bearing style....You really need to watch what parts are used!!


The things above are the only things I spent "extra" money on, I use a Smart Shell on most builds anyway.

 

[clinebarger]

I'm a snob when it comes to Torque Converters with as many times I've had to warranty a unit over a remanufactured converter coming apart & filling the unit with metal. I have a local outfit that builds them using quality parts for about 3 times the cost of a standard rebuild while still using a stamped cover, A Billet front cover unit runs @ $700. For extreme duty.....I use Circle D out of Houston where a single disc Pro Billet converter runs $1000 & a Multi Disc runs $1,200.

 

[dfarr67]

I can see your point about warranty due to converter fail- current 700R was in/out countless times before finding a guy who knew what he was doing, not a fun job, saying that- aside from the PITA governor, no issues for many miles. This converter is semi custom is where I would put it, he did say that getting LT style converters was getting harder to find. Biggest problem for me was shipping such a heavy part- you guys have no idea how cheap you have it shipping within the usa. I'll have to go through this string again but reading also suggests no shift kits (shift reprograming?) are necessary with proper mods and ecu programing with this trans. Again DD no racing- want better than factory crisp shift- nothing more. Just cruising through fleabay, the 3-4 clutches in current 700R may be 'modified' Z pack, are these old stock? I though their use fell out of favour.

 

[clinebarger]

I'm using parts from 2 shift kits in this unit......
2-3 Downshift Valve blocking spring from a TransGo 4L60E-HD-2
Accumulator Valve Spring & Quick Change Pin from a TransGo SK-4L60E

Some builders still swear by the Z-Pack, But I think that's because the kit comes with Apply & Backing Plates.

 

[dfarr67]

What kind of driving favours the Z-pack or kills it- I understand it has thinner steels?
Regarding GPZ- are they as-good-as or better than BW in the 3-4?

 

[dfarr67]

I had decided to go with the regular BW band- but you mentioned the anchor being an issue, I do have the Sonnax 2 and the 4 super servo's, does that mean HD anchor only?

 

[clinebarger]

What kind of driving favours the Z-pack or kills it- I understand it has thinner steels?
Regarding GPZ- are they as-good-as or better than BW in the 3-4?

Repeated Cycling without letting the 3-4 Clutch cool down is a death sentence for a Z-Pack & Any pack that uses more than 7 Frictions in a stock drum.

I don't have enough experience with GPZ's to give an opinion.....The Borg Warner HE's just work!

 

[clinebarger]

I had decided to go with the regular BW band- but you mentioned the anchor being an issue, I do have the Sonnax 2 and the 4 super servo's, does that mean HD anchor only?

The Sonnax 2nd Servo is less likely to break a stock Anchor than say the Fairbanks/Superior 2nd Servo with no cushion springs......Those are terrible & I've even seen broken heavy duty anchors because of them.

As a general rule....I advise against anything larger than a 093/Vette Servo on a stock band unless you stay very conservative with the 2nd feed orifice (No larger than .082" with .076" preferred)
*Run a Inner Cushion Spring, GM# 8681195.....Or the 2 Inner Cushion Springs out of a TransGo SK-4L60E WITH the original GM# 8642539 Outer Cushion Spring.
*Run the lightest TransGo Accumulator Spring (24oz)
*Do Not shorten the range of the 2nd Accumulator......No Spacers, No Sonnax Pinless Piston etc
*Adjust Band Clearance to .040".....This will limit the Servo having a running start at the Band.

 

[dfarr67]

Factory 4L60E Apply & Backing plates work quite well, This is the first & only unit I've run the Sonnax replacements in.

The Band & 3-4 clutch are the only High Energy frictions that Borg Warner makes for this unit, As they are the only Dynamic members in the unit.....The rest (Forward, Overrun, Reverse Input, Lo/Reverse) are Static & don't need to be High Energy.

Late 4L60E "Turbulator" Steels in the Lo/Reverse & Reverse Input are preferred over the 700R4 and Early 4L60E steels., The Forward & Overrun have been the same since 1987.
DO NOT use 700R4 or other untreated steels in the 3-4 Clutch, Kolene or Nitrated GM Steels ONLY, Kolene is just a fancy name for Nitrated steels.

Either Block The TCC Regulator/Isolator Valves or run a One Piece TransGo valve, Tuning will not help if wear is present in the Regulator/Isolator valve bore.

If the Drum is in good shape.....No hot spots & it's flat.....A stock BW band will easily handle 500 ft lbs. However.....You cannot run a 2nd Servo Piston larger than a Vette as the Anchors become a weak link. Wide Bands usually have heavy duty Anchors. I'm partial to High Energy/Carbon Bands & prefer the Raybestos Pro Series.
If you need a new Drum.....Might as well run a Wide Band.
**You will NEED a long Sonnax Band Apply Pin when running a stock band.....Factory band clearance is VERY sloppy. Wide bands usually account for this but still needs to be checked. I like .040" on a OE Band & .080" on a Wide Carbon Band.

Is this 2nd Gear Super Hold Servo Kit Part No. 77911-03K
Going to be a problem for a stock BW band?

A stock BW band will easily handle 500 ft lbs. However.....You cannot run a 2nd Servo Piston larger than a Vette as the Anchors become a weak link. Wide Bands usually have heavy duty Anchors. I'm partial to High Energy/Carbon Bands & prefer the Raybestos Pro Series.

 

[clinebarger]

It can be an issue, The OE band was not designed to have that much force applied to it. That's not a guarantee that a OE Band will fail.....

Far as I'm concerned.....The Corvette 2nd Servo pretty much maxes out the ability of the stock Borg Warner 2-4 Band.

 

[dfarr67]

The builder I have been talking to favours the Sonnax wide black band, it is not available. You still good with the Raybestos Pro band? Not a racing application but I do have the Sonnax 2 servo in hand so would like to use it- a new drum is ok anyway- how is the Sonnax red or any other options for street, 4x4, towing duty with a 383.

 

[clinebarger]

The builder I have been talking to favours the Sonnax wide black band, it is not available. You still good with the Raybestos Pro band? Not a racing application but I do have the Sonnax 2 servo in hand so would like to use it- a new drum is ok anyway- how is the Sonnax red or any other options for street, 4x4, towing duty with a 383.

There's a lot of things either hard to get or are out of stock, I've had good luck with the Alto Wide Carbonite Band (057961C).....But can't put my hands on one. This is likely the same band your builder likes to use.
The Pro Series Band is my wide band of choice at the moment.

The Sonnax Red is made by Alto & is identical to the Red Eagle (057961), I used to run these a lot & only had one fail from delamination.

 

[dfarr67]

- That seal kit (blue) 74960K, how did you like the results, would you use again?
- GM 24227711 with plastic seal, does this fit earlier one piece 96-98 trans?

 

[clinebarger]

Haven't had any issues with the "blue" bonded pistons, But don't have any hard data like tearing a high mileage unit down & checking the piston lip seals for shrinkage.

That's the housing I use on all my builds, But it's setup for '07 & up 4L60E & only has the inner cushion spring. Run a GM# 24219942 or GM# 24209794 Outer cushion Spring in conjunction with the inner cushion spring that comes with 24227211.

​

 

[dfarr67]

Haven't had any issues with the "blue" bonded pistons, But don't have any hard data like tearing a high mileage unit down & checking the piston lip seals for shrinkage.

That's the housing I use on all my builds, But it's setup for '07 & up 4L60E & only has the inner cushion spring. Run a GM# 24219942 or GM# 24209794 Outer cushion Spring in conjunction with the inner cushion spring that comes with 24227211.

​

Well- how can I ask the 'correct' question, without long term performance of the blue bonded pistons in hand- would you use again or pass.

 

[clinebarger]

As of right now....I would run the Blue's.

 

[GMBoy]

I am still going to get my 94 Corvette 4L60e to you in the near future to do your magic.

 

[Pigman]

Very nice detail on your build! Im currently finishing sourcing my build list parts. 4x4 99 ls 5.3. Couple of questions, should i use the bolt in case saver/update as opposed to the non bolt in. They call it adapt a case has 6 flush bolts. (2) i went with Sonnax clutch backing plate kit, bought the .67&.95 set clutches & kolenes. Also wide carbonite,new drum. Should i setup clearance on 3-4 as per Sonnax instructions or go tighter. And went with Sonnax servos hd 2-3& 4th. What Do you Recommended band clearance? Have transgo hd-2 shift kit pinless Sonnax accumulaters, and most of the stuff except the 6 pinion upgrade you are using. Have alto forward bonded pistons, should i also upgrade to blue hp? And im a bit confused about the accumulaters i read this entire post and was not sure if you used hp blue ones with pins or recommend them over the pinless. Pump is same setup as yours just have to check clearances. Then finally i have to do a converter! this is very very expensive. But I can’t afford to cheap out and redo it. Thanks for your time posting your build. And thank you for any help helpful reply. Sorry so long winded.