4L60E Build

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1,472
Location
Maryland USA
Clinebarger - what is the red snot that is used in many pictures ? Is that some sort of assembly grease that dissolves in the trans fluid ? I was overhauling my Mercruiser Bravo 3 boat stern drive, and they have a certain part where there are loose needle bearings in the lower drive casting. It is recommended to use a special Merc grease to hold the needle bearings in place while the drive shaft is installed. This grease is hard to find on short notice, and I could not find an alternative, so I used a more generic grease and made sure to flush out the drive a few times. I think the purpose of this grease, other than providing a way to hold the needle bearings in place and startup lube, is that it dissolves completely in gear oil. Mercury-Mercruiser 92-8M0071836 GREASE 16 OZ It is a bit expensive for grease and not available except from a few Merc parts houses, so I was looking for an equivalent . https://www.mercruiserparts.com/8m0071836-grease-16-oz-1
 
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7,483
Location
California
I think clinebarger is using TransGel - which is tackier than Vaseline(which is called in many OEM transmission manuals to tack parts for assembly).
 
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15,417
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted by rubberchicken
Clinebarger - what is the red snot that is used in many pictures ? Is that some sort of assembly grease that dissolves in the trans fluid ? I was overhauling my Mercruiser Bravo 3 boat stern drive, and they have a certain part where there are loose needle bearings in the lower drive casting. It is recommended to use a special Merc grease to hold the needle bearings in place while the drive shaft is installed. This grease is hard to find on short notice, and I could not find an alternative, so I used a more generic grease and made sure to flush out the drive a few times. I think the purpose of this grease, other than providing a way to hold the needle bearings in place and startup lube, is that it dissolves completely in gear oil. Mercury-Mercruiser 92-8M0071836 GREASE 16 OZ It is a bit expensive for grease and not available except from a few Merc parts houses, so I was looking for an equivalent . https://www.mercruiserparts.com/8m0071836-grease-16-oz-1
Looks like TransJel to me.

IMG_8266.jpg
 
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Messages
1,445
Location
Dana Point, CA
Fascinating as always with your threads. Your 'Gil Younger' builds like this one fire really my powder. Thank you.
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Looks like TransJel to me.
We can only imagine the volume of consumables that pass through your shelves and bins. No TJ but lots of aromatic fragrances in my shop. [Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
 

clinebarger

Thread starter
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5,628
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
It's TransJel Red made by SPX-Filtran, Red is the heavy tack, They also have a light tack called TransJel Gold. I use Red in warm weather & Gold in cold weather. Lubegard makes their own versions in Blue & Green, Green is the heavy tack & heavier than TJ Red in my opinion.
 
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ls1mike

$50 Site Donor 2021
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6,800
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In the Garage...
Looks great Cline, the transmission is something I won't do much with. I will service one or like on my current truck I put a deep PML transmission pan on it. I pay for anything like this to be done. Did you have to change anything on the 4L65E to get it work in your F-body? Maybe you said and I missed it.
 

clinebarger

Thread starter
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5,628
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Fort Worth, Texas
Had the change the output shaft as the 65E was out of a AWD Escalade, Along with the Manual Shift Shaft because there no Digital Range Sensor & the NSS is located on the shifter inside the car. Of course I needed a Extension Housing specific for the Torque Arm Mount, This is still available from GM for $80 part# 24209544. The Dipstick Tube, Shift Shaft Arm/Lever, & Shift Cable Bracket are almost impossible to find anymore. The Dipstick Tube especially as it's specific to LS1/Auto '98-'02 cars. I've wrecked out enough of these cars to have a stock of this obscure stuff. Though I wasn't ratholing this stuff for a specific reason back then as I didn't own a 4th Gen at the time.
 
Messages
103
Location
Edson, Alberta
In the current 700r4 I've had zero issues with the 3-4, and is not a racing application, K1500/towing/4x4. Decided not to go with Sonnax Smart Drum or 4L79 or variant for cost and custom parts availability. Will install Sonnax reinforcement kit- but was wondering what parameters are met with deciding to go with their HD backing plates vs GM 4L60E thicker backing plates? There's very little info in search and I think Sonnax make some great parts- but they like promoting them also.
 

clinebarger

Thread starter
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5,628
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
The 4L65E "HD" Apply & Backing are a little thinner than the 4L60E variants......
*The 4L65E uses 7 .067" thick frictions & 6 .095" steels
*The 4L60E uses 6 .080" thick frictions & 5 .106" steels
*The Sonnax 74140-01K kit is designed to use a 4L65E set-up.

This is what I use in all my stock/towing/mild performance builds.....
*4L60E apply plate GM# 8685044
*4L60E backing plate GM# 24212460
*7 .080" thick Borg Warner frictions
*6 .077" thick Kolene treated steels.....You may need to substitute one of these for a .095" thick steel to obtain the desired clutch clearance of .023" to .030".

The .080" frictions hold up better than .067" in my experience.

You only need the reinforcement kit if you're running a converter without damper springs in the converter clutch.
 
Messages
103
Location
Edson, Alberta
You only need the reinforcement kit if you're running a converter without damper springs in the converter clutch.
I have kit already- but funny how very little is said on why they recommend most upgrades or why it is not needed.

This application is 96-98 4L60E 4x4. 383/TPI- 350hp/400tq. I'm not building the trans, just fleshing out the major parts I want.
Quite a difference going from less than $20 to $125 for the Sonnax plates, don't mind spending the money for a clear cut winner- but there's so many places to spend money on these things. Don't want to cut corners- but make some intelligent choices.
- the BW Hi energy will likely be used throughout for frictions.
- I've read that the 700R4 steels are preferred?? Throughout or just in the 3-4?
The converter is a reman 2400 stall, sent the existing core in to be rebuilt- should have dampers and upgraded friction- which brings me to another question----PWM management, do I eliminate PWM in the build or build trans normally and disable in programming- I prefer the feel of on/off, I don't understand the concept of better fuel economy strategy using PWM?
Another question is the band- wide or not, I've read that the BW regular width band is more than sufficient not requiring a new drum, or the wide carbon or Sonnax red band that requires a new drum- is a new drum a good idea anyway- if so, then why not a wide band??
How do you deal with solenoids- all new or tested good?
 

clinebarger

Thread starter
Messages
5,628
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
You only need the reinforcement kit if you're running a converter without damper springs in the converter clutch.
I have kit already- but funny how very little is said on why they recommend most upgrades or why it is not needed.

This application is 96-98 4L60E 4x4. 383/TPI- 350hp/400tq. I'm not building the trans, just fleshing out the major parts I want.
Quite a difference going from less than $20 to $125 for the Sonnax plates, don't mind spending the money for a clear cut winner- but there's so many places to spend money on these things. Don't want to cut corners- but make some intelligent choices.
- the BW Hi energy will likely be used throughout for frictions.
- I've read that the 700R4 steels are preferred?? Throughout or just in the 3-4?
The converter is a reman 2400 stall, sent the existing core in to be rebuilt- should have dampers and upgraded friction- which brings me to another question----PWM management, do I eliminate PWM in the build or build trans normally and disable in programming- I prefer the feel of on/off, I don't understand the concept of better fuel economy strategy using PWM?
Another question is the band- wide or not, I've read that the BW regular width band is more than sufficient not requiring a new drum, or the wide carbon or Sonnax red band that requires a new drum- is a new drum a good idea anyway- if so, then why not a wide band??
How do you deal with solenoids- all new or tested good?

Factory 4L60E Apply & Backing plates work quite well, This is the first & only unit I've run the Sonnax replacements in.

The Band & 3-4 clutch are the only High Energy frictions that Borg Warner makes for this unit, As they are the only Dynamic members in the unit.....The rest (Forward, Overrun, Reverse Input, Lo/Reverse) are Static & don't need to be High Energy.

Late 4L60E "Turbulator" Steels in the Lo/Reverse & Reverse Input are preferred over the 700R4 and Early 4L60E steels., The Forward & Overrun have been the same since 1987.
DO NOT use 700R4 or other untreated steels in the 3-4 Clutch, Kolene or Nitrated GM Steels ONLY, Kolene is just a fancy name for Nitrated steels.

Either Block The TCC Regulator/Isolator Valves or run a One Piece TransGo valve, Tuning will not help if wear is present in the Regulator/Isolator valve bore.

If the Drum is in good shape.....No hot spots & it's flat.....A stock BW band will easily handle 500 ft lbs. However.....You cannot run a 2nd Servo Piston larger than a Vette as the Anchors become a weak link. Wide Bands usually have heavy duty Anchors. I'm partial to High Energy/Carbon Bands & prefer the Raybestos Pro Series.
If you need a new Drum.....Might as well run a Wide Band.
**You will NEED a long Sonnax Band Apply Pin when running a stock band.....Factory band clearance is VERY sloppy. Wide bands usually account for this but still needs to be checked. I like .040" on a OE Band & .080" on a Wide Carbon Band.
 
Messages
8,590
Location
Texas
Thank you for the always awesome detailed posts with photos!! I need to get my 4L60e to you for a rebuild. It's in my 94 LT1 Corvette and its lost its overrun clutches, I have no drag in lower gears - it just coasts. Runs fine otherwise and been like this for years. I am the original owner and it has 64k miles. A stock car so no real upgrades needed.
 
Messages
103
Location
Edson, Alberta
I'm partial to High Energy/Carbon Bands & prefer the Raybestos Pro Series.

Is there one part number for the Pro Series wide band? My reading says to stay away from Kevlar..
 

clinebarger

Thread starter
Messages
5,628
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
I'm partial to High Energy/Carbon Bands & prefer the Raybestos Pro Series.

Is there one part number for the Pro Series wide band? My reading says to stay away from Kevlar..
The lining contains a very small percentage of Kevlar & the shift characteristics are much more like a High Energy Band than a true Kevlar Band.
 

clinebarger

Thread starter
Messages
5,628
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Is there a step up from rebuilt pumps- say a blue printed 10 vane?

You have to blue print them yourself, I like 0.0008"–0.0020" clearance on both the Rotor & Slide.....

If your existing Pump Body & Pump Cover are in good shape, Remove the Support Ring & O-ring from the Slide, Place the Slide & Rotor into the Pump Body by themselves.
Place 3 strips of Plastigage evenly spaced on the Rotor....Then on the Slide, Torque the pump halves together. Pull it apart & measure the Plastigage.
This will give you an idea on what Rotor & Slide thickness you need, Unfortunately.....AcDelco 13 Vane Rotors & Slides are the only ones sold in selectable thicknesses that I know of.

A Sonnax .490" Boost Valve & 10% Over PR Spring, TransGo Hi-Rev Rings & Primer Spring....Coupled with good Converter Spacing WILL NOT break a OE 13 Vane Rotor & it will produce plenty of volume & pressure for your needs., Even a TransGo .500 Boost Valve & HD-2 PR Spring won't break it.
Shimming the PR valve/spring, Limiting Slide movement, And poor Converter spacing is how Rotors get broke!!!

If you need Delco Rotor & Slide part numbers & nominal thicknesses....Let me know.
 
Messages
103
Location
Edson, Alberta
Wondering about valve bodies- any good quality sorces (besides sonnax's own reman) updated valve bodies- wondering if that is an option instead of dealing with existing one. Existing core is unknown- maybe good or worn.
 
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