.45 vs .357

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: otis24
Zerosoma,

The best advice I can give is "try before you buy". I too am a revolver guy. Gary's Gun Shop in Sioux Falls rents guns and has an indoor range. It is better to try several than purchase something and not like it.

It is very easy to get a CCW in South Dakota. Both my wife and I have ours. I would get on that pronto before things change. Go to your local sherrif's office. If you have no issues, you will leave with a temporary permit and have your permanent permit within about ten days. The cost is $10 for four years.


Thank you! I did go to Gary's one time last year to shoot with my friend. I shot his Glock and a Sig Sauer P220 that I rented. I liked them both but struggled with reloading and everything. I am trying to get my wife to go down to Sioux Falls with me but we don't have the time and when we do she's too exhausted with school and such to go there.

 

[otis24]

If you go with a revolver, I would consider the SP101, or better yet, a 3" Smith and Wesson K frame (Model 10 or 64 .38 special, or Model 65 in .357). The other thing to consider is grips. They can make a huge difference in the way a gun feels. The best combination I have seen is a 3" SP101 with Trausch grips. I traded mine for a S&W because the trigger pull on the SP101 was stiff and gritty. It made for difficult shooting with my mildly arthritic fingers. Excellent revolvers otherwise, though.

 

[SuperDave456]

An old trade in .38 Smith and Wesson would be perfect. Lots of prisons are turning in their .38's for new .40's.
However, those are few and far between these days. Everything seems to fly off the shelves these days.

As for just shooting, plinking, and having fun. I will always recommend .38 over anything else. You don't have to bend over to pick up your brass, and you can get a bunch of reloads out of one pound of powder.

I use .357 to hunt with also.

I don't practice with my .45 much any longer as ammunition has gotten so much more expensive over the past few years.

Recoil is more about perception than anything else. Some firearms have more perceived recoil than others.

If you are going to get one firearm, I'd suggest a .38 from Smith and Wesson.
If you are going to get two.
Get a .22 and a .38

You can learn a lot about firearms from a .22 and have a lot of fun for cheap.

 

[Rock_Hudstone]

Originally Posted By: otis24
I traded mine for a S&W because the trigger pull on the SP101 was stiff and gritty. It made for difficult shooting with my mildly arthritic fingers. Excellent revolvers otherwise, though.

I would pass on the Ruger for the above reason and overall better quality of the S&W revolvers, (can't comment on the arthritic fingers however). I'd suggest a pre-trigger lock, 4 inch S&W 686 seven shot as a hand cannon. Naturally concealed carry will require something smaller and lighter.

For plinking how about a Ruger semi-auto Mark III, nice little gun that can double as defensive weapon, with the 10 shot magazine you can put a lot of small holes in a bad guy very quickly.
http://www.ruger.com/products/markIIIStandard/models.html

Yeah, it gets expensive upfront but firearms hold their value and can last for generations with proper care

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: dparm
I understand that recoil is also dependent on the gun's mass and the design, but in general the .45 will have more recoil.



Ergonomics play a huge part as well. The gun can be designed with a low slide profile/low bore axis that will lessen the perceived recoil by creating less leverage when the gun fires on the hand of the operator. Also the more mass out in front will help it "flip" less.

 

[Fleetmon]

Tempest gave you some good advice....1911's are really neat but they are a little more "complicated" than others....they are specialized tools of the trade that require a lot of practice.

Be careful with the lightweight. 357's....my wife has the S&W M&P 360.....outstanding lightweight handgun but absolutely brutal with. 357's.....she will only shoot .38 Special out of it for practice and keeps it loaded with 125 grain .38 +P's for defense (not my selection...hers).

I carry lightweight 9mm typically and occasionally a 22 oz. 45acp but it gets REAL heavy at the end of the day.

 

[The_Eric]

O/P, a few thoughts...

As others have already said, if possible, try before you by!

On the 1911. Some say it's a poor first gun choice and for some it may be. It was my first handgun purchase, so I'll offer my thoughts on it. It is my opinion that if you have some common sense and mechanical abilities, a 1911 really isn't that bad. Maintaining it is not much more complicated than my wife's M&P (similar in concept to a Glock). It does have some recoil (more muzzle flip than push you back recoil) but it's quite manageable. My wife shoots it often with NO issues.

Some have raised concerns about it's ability to reliably feed and stay working. I think you'll find more than a few who will disagree. Mine will feed everything from FMJ (Ball) ammo to Speer Gold Dot hollow point defensive rounds without issue. Yes, you will have to replace the springs in the pistol and magazine occasionally, but that's not a big issue. Mine has about 1500 rounds through it and is carried daily, yet still functions fine.

For home defense, it's a reliable (stopping) round and is good for fast, consistent follow ups. Reloading is as easy as slipping another magazine in place and releasing the slide. BTW, when you said that you had some issues reloading a friend's auto, do you mean reloading the magazine or inserting the mag in the pistol and releasing the slide?

On the down side of 1911 ownership is carrying and ammo prices. I carry mine, but it may not work for some due to it's heft and extra weight. Some will say that it's not as abuse tolerant as other pistols, but really, when do we abuse our pistols? They did work fine in the military up until 80's?


On the 357, it's hard to argue that it's not an effective round. Just keep in mind that if you select a poor quality or abused revolver, you can have jams and misfires. A local gun store rep was telling me that they sold a Taurus that after only a few rounds, it came out of time. The cylinder wouldn't properly index to the barrel and the bullets ended up clipping the edge of the barrel causing lead to shoot out of the gap between the barrel and cylinder. Rare, but it can happen. Really, problems can arise in any firearm at any time.





On the LCR, I have a question for those who know more than I, that could well benefit the o/p and myself... Since it has such a short barrel, the round won't have near the energy that one fired from a longer barrel would. According to Speer, their 125grn round fired from a 4" barrel will have 584lbs of energy at the muzzle, where their short barrel ammo (135grn) only has 294lbs at the muzzle. So would that translate into a more manageable recoil in spite of the lighter weight LCR?


So to close, pick the one that intrigues you the most. Both are more than up to the task - any task. Personally, I'd pick them both... In fact, after my SS CZ 75 shows up, I'm going to buy an LCR.

 

[Mystic]

If I could I would have both a .45 and a .357. Probably a person could get the .357 cheaper and a revolver is simple and easy to use and maintain. But the .45 is a legend as a combat handgun.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
when you said that you had some issues reloading a friend's auto, do you mean reloading the magazine or inserting the mag in the pistol and releasing the slide?




Reloading the magazine. He said he had a speed loader but I still had problems. Getting the bullets to push down into the magazine. I got the hang of it after awhile but it felt like pushing a nail into a wall with my finger.

 

[zerosoma]

BTW I think I'm going to head over to the gun shop and buy a Hi Point 9mm for starters, and in the same breath research a good revolver. I know I've heard the stories of the Hi Points jamming and being terrible and all that but I held it and it felt solid. The slide is made out of steel regardless of the polycarbonate body. I'm sure lots have good experiences with them too and for $150 it wouldn't hurt to just get started on shooting. It won't be long before I buy a revolver to compliment it, but that way at least I have a 9mm to plink around on as a semi auto to get used to and then the revolver as a more serious gun. At least I can practice on a semi-auto and uprgrade later if I like.

I'd like to try to get my hands on a Snake Tamer too, by H&R, the shop had one for $159...it shoots 20 gauge rounds, looks like a lot of fun. But that's a different topic completely!

 

[OVERKILL]

What about an Anaconda? Definitely my favourite revolver!

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: The_Eric
when you said that you had some issues reloading a friend's auto, do you mean reloading the magazine or inserting the mag in the pistol and releasing the slide?




Reloading the magazine. He said he had a speed loader but I still had problems. Getting the bullets to push down into the magazine. I got the hang of it after awhile but it felt like pushing a nail into a wall with my finger.


Yeah, my wife had some issues loading her M&P's magazine too. I have the hand and finger strength to do it without too much trouble though. I ended up buying her an Uplula magazine loading tool and I must say that it really helped. You need a solid work platform and a little bit of rhythm, but it works great!

 

[spasm3]

The 1911 is an excellent design. I don't like single action for concealed carry. You can carry a 1911 cocked and locked, but i prefer ( for safety) a double action with one in the chamber.

 

[ledslinger]

Don't buy a Hi Point. I recommend an S&W model 15 38 Special.

 

[Robenstein]

If you must go cheap and want a semi auto, look around for any of the old eastern european surplus guns in 9mm Makarov. Dirt cheap to shoot, and reliable. I had a Makarov and a PA63 and both were cheap(especially the PA63) and ran like a top.

 

[zerosoma]

Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Don't buy a Hi Point.


Everybody always says this. I'm still gonna go for it though. $150 is easily recouped if I don't like it. And if I do, then I've got a gun I like at a price I like even better! Plus, lifetime warranty, not bad at all.

Then I will start saving at the same time for a solid revolver.

 

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Don't buy a Hi Point.


Everybody always says this. I'm still gonna go for it though. $150 is easily recouped if I don't like it. And if I do, then I've got a gun I like at a price I like even better! Plus, lifetime warranty, not bad at all.

Then I will start saving at the same time for a solid revolver.


I bought my PA63 for 99 bucks. If you can find one get that. Military Grade.

Basically a Walther PP clone in 9mm mak. Id trust its reliability over a Hi Point anyday.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
You mentioned the .357 LCR. I was seriously considering the LCR because it feels so GOOD ON THE HANDS and fits my hands like a glove. Plus the trigger pull is easy. I fear the recoil of the .357 variety though and am afraid the small frame of the LCR would make for innacuracies/heavy recoils. I'd buy the .38 variant of it but I feel if I'm going to drop 4-5 bills on a revolver I might as well get something that shoots the more powerful .357s as well. The whole reason I was looking at the SP101 is because I like the looks (doh! sexy!) and I figure it would have much less recoil problems with a .357 load. But perhaps I'm wrong. I don't mind the SP101, it feels okay, maybe not quite as heavenly as the LCR to me. and yes the GP100 felt like a musket in my hand. A guy told me at the store it was the best revolver Ruger makes and I figured for only $70 more I might as well have the best. But it's not always that easy. I picked up a Taurus .38 Ultra Lite and I did not like how it felt. It felt cheap and not smooth at all like the Rugers. For the RIGHT price though I might consider one.

So now I'm reconsidering a .357 LCR. I was also checknig out some other handguns today and (off topic) I thought for $150 I could get a 9mm Hi-Point for fun as well, besides the revolver. To be honest the semi-autos scare me because I don't quite understand them and am afraid they'll randomly discharge if I cock teh slide wrong. It would be funt o shooot something with less expensive rounds (i.e. 9mm) when plinking. .38s are expensive around here! (we're talking $24 for 50 rounds vs $16 for 9mm).

So in your opinion, what would be the best .357 for my use, for the money, under $500 used? Leaning towards the LCR now, is this a solid choice?


LCR is great for pocket carry (which is my preference); the 38+P version is better for that but I found the recoil "brutal" (my experience, others will disagree). So I traded for the 357Mag version. I've never shot 357 from it, and never will. 158grn +P's are hard on the hand, but at least now 148grn wadcutters are, well, they aren't a joy but I no longer cry while shooting it.

If you go for appendix carry, or belt carry, or glovebox carry, then the SP101 might be better. While I prefer the grip of the LCR the SP101 isn't far behind. I don't find the sight radius any better, and I put in a lighter Wolf hammer spring into it to get close(r) to the LCR trigger: but the recoil is markedly less in my 3" SP101.

I haven't seen a 9mm revolver in a bit. They tend to be a nuisance, from what I understand: either you have to put the rounds into a moonclip, or deal with lousy ejection. You see, like most calibers meant for an automatic, 9mm Luger (or Parabellum, or whatever you want to call 9x19) lacks a rim around the cartridge base. 38spl, 357Mag, 22LR and a host of others do have a rim at the base; these naturally work well in a revolver. So far, 9mm and 40 caliber revolvers haven't been a great success, and I don't think they are in your price range anyhow. Try hunting around, if you aren't into reloading see if you can find some Blazer ammunition, or try some reloaded ammunition, as long as it's well recommended by the locals.

Personally, while having revolvers rated for 357Mag is ideal, I find the 357Mag just too brutal to bother with. Better for trade-in value, if I were to do that, but not my cup of tea. If you have a more limited budget I'd not rule out 38spl-only revolvers. I'd avoid anything light weight. I have not had a chance to run a S&W Model 10 (the classic sidearm of the police for decades), mostly because they're no longer all that cheap--but I think they are still in your price range.

***

I don't think I've ever heard of a gun going off due to the slide being racked. I'm sure it's happened, though. Two things come to mind: first off, you're supposed to always have the gun pointed in a safe direction. Period. Secondly, if you do a bit of research before buying any particular gun, you'll easily weed out any that might be prone to that sort of thing. Nothing made today will do that, because they'd be skinned alive in the courts.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
On the LCR, I have a question for those who know more than I, that could well benefit the o/p and myself... Since it has such a short barrel, the round won't have near the energy that one fired from a longer barrel would. According to Speer, their 125grn round fired from a 4" barrel will have 584lbs of energy at the muzzle, where their short barrel ammo (135grn) only has 294lbs at the muzzle. So would that translate into a more manageable recoil in spite of the lighter weight LCR?


Less energy should mean less recoil. Problem is, the gun is pretty light, and with the short barrel it tends to want to flip up. I think, and I could be wet behind the ears, that the muzzle flip is more objectionable than the recoil which pushes directly into your hand. I'm guessing (since I have no way to prove it) that, with two guns that are identical weight, bore height above the hand, etc but with significantly different barrel lengths, the longer barrel will feel "better", as it will flip up less. It'll also be less loud, which can be just as bad as recoil.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: zerosoma
BTW I think I'm going to head over to the gun shop and buy a Hi Point 9mm for starters, and in the same breath research a good revolver. I know I've heard the stories of the Hi Points jamming and being terrible and all that but I held it and it felt solid. The slide is made out of steel regardless of the polycarbonate body. I'm sure lots have good experiences with them too and for $150 it wouldn't hurt to just get started on shooting. It won't be long before I buy a revolver to compliment it, but that way at least I have a 9mm to plink around on as a semi auto to get used to and then the revolver as a more serious gun. At least I can practice on a semi-auto and uprgrade later if I like.

I'd like to try to get my hands on a Snake Tamer too, by H&R, the shop had one for $159...it shoots 20 gauge rounds, looks like a lot of fun. But that's a different topic completely!


I was in a gun shop that sold HiPoints brand new, $150-200 or whatever. Someone went to trade one in, and the owner was going to give him $40 for it. !!!! I'm guessing he might get maybe $75 in private sale. I mean, if it's $150 brand new, can you really hope that someone is going to pay $100 for something used? Your money, your choice, I've got no horse in the HiPoint discussions.

Careful on the Snake Tamer. 20g is usually liked by people who think 12g has too much recoil. But the H&R sounds like a single shot, which means it's light. Which means it'll kick like a mule. Might be fun with the cheapo birdshot rounds you can buy cheaply at Walmart. But if it were me, I'd probably spend the money on my CCW firearm first, even if I had to spend more than I wanted to. Fun guns can come later. Actually, this summer I passed up a couple of deals at the local fleamarket; want to say someone had an H&R 20g single shot, decent looking, for $70. My kind of deal ('cept I haven't a use for one).