400HP 800 Ft. Lb. 34mpg 2011 powersroke.

[sciphi]

I don't know if accelerating very slowly was allowed/not allowed. Drafting 2-3 carlengths is nuts. 6-7 carlengths is fine for getting the benefits of drafting safely.

Knowing more of the specifics on what hypermiling techniques were used would be great. Until then, guessing what "may" have happened in what sounds like a leveled playing field is just that, guessing.

I think Wayne Gerdes could have gotten a lot more than 34 mpg if he had been let alone to record the absolute highest MPG possible.

 

[Dualie]

my point was a 175 HP truck pulling the same loads that the new superduty is rated to pull will make you this kind of "hazard to navigation"

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Dualie
my point was a 175 HP truck pulling the same loads that the new superduty is rated to pull will make you this kind of "hazard to navigation"


Well then, with all due respect, you should have said that. Instead, you plainly implied that the only alternative to overloading a 175 hp truck was using one with 400/800. And you implied that I was contradicting myself as compared to my comments over in the 400/800 thread. Neither is correct.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
I don't know if accelerating very slowly was allowed/not allowed. Drafting 2-3 carlengths is nuts. 6-7 carlengths is fine for getting the benefits of drafting safely.
Again, I agree. Interestingly, by aggressively using Rain-X on my windshield, I can see the effects of airflow when there are raindrops on the glass. Observing the movement of the water on the glass, and my instant mpg needle, I will agree that "mild" drafting still confers a worthwhile benefit.

...
Originally Posted By: sciphi
I think Wayne Gerdes could have gotten a lot more than 34 mpg if he had been let alone to record the absolute highest MPG possible.
If he had arrived in one piece... The problem, IMO, is that some of his techniques really do push into danger territory (close drafting, max speed turns, etc.). By contrast, again, I'm sure that if I disregarded safety, and gave up caring about NOT infuriating every other driver around me, I could easily hit 75 mpg in the Camry hybrid. BTW, there's a girl in Japan who reportedly tops 100 mpg regularly in her Prius. That will continue just fine until she triggers some road-rager to run her into a ditch or just flat out shoot her.

Saving gas is important. Saving my life (and yours) is more important...

 

[Dualie]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: Dualie
my point was a 175 HP truck pulling the same loads that the new superduty is rated to pull will make you this kind of "hazard to navigation"


Well then, with all due respect, you should have said that. Instead, you plainly implied that the only alternative to overloading a 175 hp truck was using one with 400/800. And you implied that I was contradicting myself as compared to my comments over in the 400/800 thread. Neither is correct.

Low horsepower and heavy loads go hand and hand with ridiculously slow acceleration. This is where the 400 HP part comes into play.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Dualie
...
Low horsepower and heavy loads go hand and hand with ridiculously slow acceleration. This is where the 400 HP part comes into play.

I absolutely agree with that. But let's not forget that the top-of-the-line diesels for pickups are exceedingly expensive options (between $5000 and $7000 over gas V-8s depending upon make and model), and there are plenty of sensible options between 175 hp and 400 hp (yes, yes, there's tq to consider too). From a business/economic perspective, I'd choose the very expensive 400/800 diesel option ONLY if one of the much less expensive gas V-8s could not fit the bill for my particular transport mission. I'm sure you'd agree with that idea, yes?

 

[rslifkin]

Wayne's techniques, like those on sites like Ecomodder, are definitely worthwhile and can make a big difference. He just pushes to extremes to see what the absolute best he can do is.

Using them more moderately, such as drafting a bit farther back, makes it much safer, and can still have a huge impact on fuel economy.

Ekpolk - For the gas V8 vs 400/800 in terms of economics, it would depend on how long I planned on keeping the truck. If it was only a few years, and either one would do the job, I'd probably pick the gasser. However, if I planned on keeping it until it was worn out, and putting a ton of miles on it, the diesel may be a better bet due to the fuel savings.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Nice! Now imagine what they could do with a reasonably powered version...


How do you define reasonable? This is a heavy duty work truck we are talking about here. The power is needed.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Nice! Now imagine what they could do with a reasonably powered version...


How do you define reasonable? This is a heavy duty work truck we are talking about here. The power is needed.
Simple, you define "reasonable" in terms of your own specific transport requirements. If the heaviest thing you haul around is a bass boat or a couple of jet skis, you're not going to logically justify the diesel truck. If you simply WANT one, that's fine, buy one, this is a free country, and you should not be subject to any more criticism than the guy who opts to buy a Corvette to satisfy his desires. OTOH, if you are routinely dragging around a 15k pound trailer of some sort, well then sure, look at the diesel, it's a very logical choice (especially if you're making a profit moving things around).

Another thought in a different direction: while I don't doubt that Mr. Gerdes managed to pull off 34 mpg in a Powerstroke (if not him, who else), I seriously doubt that he was towing a 15k pound trailer when he did it.

Put another way, he was operating the truck in an unrealistically favorable "mode." Diesel trucks like this exist to move massively heavy stuff/things. Running them without such stuff/things aboard or attached is virtually guaranteed to produce favorable fuel economy results.

EDIT: p.s. I actually grew up in "New Hampsha" myself, and drove busses at UNH from 1980-83. We had a mix of gassers and diesels. I personally preferred the diesels, except on very cold mornings (you know what I mean). The can of ether made the gassers easier to start, but after that, it was diesel all the way... FWIW. Forget that malarky about "there's no replacement for displacement" -- IMO, there's no replacement for TORQUE -- however it's made, and diesels do make it very well... OTOH, so do the motor-generators in my Camry hybrid.

 

[rslifkin]

You're right about that. There is no replacement for torque. The "no replacement for displacement" saying came about with NA gas engines, where the easiest way to get more torque was with a bigger engine.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
You're right about that. There is no replacement for torque. The "no replacement for displacement" saying came about with NA gas engines, where the easiest way to get more torque was with a bigger engine.


Correct, of course -- but note please my inclusion of the phrase "however it's made".

p.s. adding motor-generators capable of instantly producing 200 ft-lb, from 0 rpm, goes a long way to making up for the paltry 2.4L displacement in my Camry! Maybe there IS a replacement for displacement.

 

[rclint]

One and only solution give me any vehicle for one month and see what mileage I get. I have a decent long work route with small trips mixed in running kids back forth to school etc, it takes very little time for me to find the true EPA...

 

[Dualie]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: Dualie
...
Low horsepower and heavy loads go hand and hand with ridiculously slow acceleration. This is where the 400 HP part comes into play.

I absolutely agree with that. But let's not forget that the top-of-the-line diesels for pickups are exceedingly expensive options (between $5000 and $7000 over gas V-8s depending upon make and model), and there are plenty of sensible options between 175 hp and 400 hp (yes, yes, there's tq to consider too). From a business/economic perspective, I'd choose the very expensive 400/800 diesel option ONLY if one of the much less expensive gas V-8s could not fit the bill for my particular transport mission. I'm sure you'd agree with that idea, yes?

I do agree with that to a point. theres something's that diesels are just better suited for. Personally my business is setup for diesel equipment. And storing gasoline in larger quantity's brings a whole new set of problems with it.

The new gas motors are 350+ horsepower with half the torque and worse mileage and resale. For my 3/4 ton pickups i would definitely buy the little 4 cyl 230 horsepower diesels available overseas. But the 3500/350's, 450 and 550 sized trucks will without a doubt get the big dog diesels.

 

[Geonerd]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk

...I agree with you in that I disagree with the lengths that he goes to to attain those impressive MPG numbers. However, we can all learn something from what he does - whether it involves keeping your tires properly inflated, turning off the motor at long stop lights, using a Scangauge to maximize the time in the engine's most economical range, and so on.
...

I wonder if Wayne was shutting off the diesel at every stoplight?

Heck, he was probably shutting it off at EVERY available opportunity, whether the truck was stationary or not.

Big whoop. An obsessive-compulsive dork managed to squeeze 30+ MPG from the an overpowered joke of a vehicle. Joe Sixpack will be very lucky to see half that mileage.

Mild, non-intrusive, hypermiling is one thing. (It's not hard to watch traffic, etc., and increase your city mileage 30%) OTOH, the absurd lengths Wayne and his fellow OSD patients go to are quite another. The guy's sanctimonious attitude only makes him all the more unbearable.

 

[RTexasF]

Originally Posted By: Geonerd
Originally Posted By: ekpolk

...I agree with you in that I disagree with the lengths that he goes to to attain those impressive MPG numbers. However, we can all learn something from what he does - whether it involves keeping your tires properly inflated, turning off the motor at long stop lights, using a Scangauge to maximize the time in the engine's most economical range, and so on.
...

I wonder if Wayne was shutting off the diesel at every stoplight?

Heck, he was probably shutting it off at EVERY available opportunity, whether the truck was stationary or not.

Big whoop. An obsessive-compulsive dork managed to squeeze 30+ MPG from the an overpowered joke of a vehicle. Joe Sixpack will be very lucky to see half that mileage.

Mild, non-intrusive, hypermiling is one thing. (It's not hard to watch traffic, etc., and increase your city mileage 30%) OTOH, the absurd lengths Wayne and his fellow OSD patients go to are quite another. The guy's sanctimonious attitude only makes him all the more unbearable.

Agreed. Although he has a rabid following, his cock-sure attitude ruins it for me. He frequented a Honda forum for a while and preached to us as though we were ignorant children. Most, myself included, despised him and he left soon after. Obsessive compulsive to the ultimate degree is his description. I hope he manages nuclear power plants with more care than he applies to driving on public highways. He is a danger to the roads he travels and his followers are equally hazardous.

 

[OVERKILL]

Who "tweaked" the title of this thread?

 

[sciphi]

On the other hand, pushing the limits of what's societally acceptable on the highways does get people thinking about fuel economy. That usually is the last thing on folk's minds when they're driving. Applying some mild mileage-enhancing techniques helps both mileage and safety. You're usually going a little bit slower, and are more aware of things around you. At least that's been my experience by following the speed limits or doing a few mph under in the right lane.

It's also arguable that he was driving the truck how it will be driven by a fair number of suburban cowboys. IE, 1 person with nothing else in the truck. Good to see it's at least capable of better mileage than some smaller SUV's.

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Who "tweaked" the title of this thread?
Not me...

 

[Dualie]

I thought moderators were supposed to be Unbiased?

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: Dualie
I thought moderators were supposed to be Unbiased?


If you want one of us to respond to something like that, at least make a specific allegation of how you think one of us has shown bias. Then, and only then, can we respond. Otherwise, it's really nothing more than a cheap shot.

So, EXACTLY how are you concerned that we are biased?